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Feb 142015


I received the following e mail today from a woman named “Julie” today…I thought it was very interesting, and my guess is that Patrick put this woman up to sending it to me to try to convince me that HE never intended for Hamilton to harm us, that his intentions were to “help” the family and that Hamilton “betrayed him.”

Hi. I corresponded with patrick at one point when he had a cell phone on a social networking site. I am a nurse as well.  I was intrigued with the story he told about his situation. He had said nothing about hurting you or your family and was very upset about what his friend had done. He had wanted help for his grandmother and had thought his friend could help her and she could help him with a place to stay. He was very frustrated when his friend betrayed him. I never found out how the story ended and don’t even know if he is still incarcerated but I hope your family are all well

Here is my answer to her.
I’m not sure why exactly you are contacting me, especially if you don’t know if he is still incarcerated or not…so please forgive me if I am a bit suspicious of you contacting me.
Patrick may not have told you, but is in prison because  he shot a 17 year old girl in the head at point blank range in cold blood because he had stolen her grandfather’s credit cards and she “ratted him out” to the cops. He told me he tells other inmates that he is in there for killing a drug dealer that killed his wife.
After killing this young girl, he dumped her body which wasn’t found for 2 weeks while her poor parents were frantic until the cops put a trace on his jail house phone and he called his buddy and asked him to move the body, and of course the cops recorded that call and then found the body.

As far as Patrick is concerned, etc I have ALL THE LETTERS Patrick wrote Ken Hamilton telling him just how to infiltrate our family like a Trojan horse so I know exactly what was going on. He told Hamilton how to manipulate my mother and many other things.
Patrick can be very charming and manipulative, but believe me, it is my opinion that he is dangerous to me and society in general. I loved my son and I didn’t want to believe that he is a psychopath (the “correct” name for this is Anti Social Personality Disorder) but I have that diagnosis in the medical records that he sent me once from Prison when I was trying to get him some surgery he needed on his shoulder. I didn’t even read them until after Hamilton tried to kill my son Clay.
Nope, no matter what he has told you, I Have MORE THAN ENOUGH PROOF to show that he was involved in a plot with Hamilton to take over our family’s assets and if the only way was “over my dead body” then so be it. No, his friend did not betray him, his friend followed his instructions until
Plan A” went bad and I fled my home and went to live in HIDING, then Hamilton went to “Plan B” which was he and my daughter in law (who were having an affair) decided to kill my son Clay. She stole 24 thousand dollars from my mother and bought guns, then they “accidently” left them in his truck (he couldn’t have a gun as a convicted felon) and then he was “bringing them home” to her when he “found” my son clay beating her and he had to kill clay to defend her. Fortunately Plan B was a failure as well and Hamilton AND my DIL both went to prison She for buying him the gun, knowing he was a felon and him for having it. All the other charges were plead out.
After Hamilton was arrested we found all the letters Patrick had sent him telling him exactly how to manipulate us all.
I don’t know if you are still in contact with Patrick or not, but you writing me at this point in time and your comment that you don’t know if he is still incarcerated or not makes me actually think that he put you up to contacting me and telling me how HE didn’t intend anything, when in fact, HE WAS DOING THE PLOTTING AND PLANNING AND SCHEMING ALONG WITH HAMILTON… He still has my poor mom deluded with his “cover story” about Hamilton being the ONLY bad guy.
Julie if you have any kind of continuing relationship with Patrick I hope that you will get out of it ASAP He is a dangerous man and continues to be dangerous and criminal, even from behind bars. Patrick is a full on psychopath and has NO conscience, no loyalty to anyone, is very manipulative and meaner than a snake if you cross him which cost Jessica Witt her life on January 20, 1992 devastating the entire family of this only child. There is NO “rehabilitation” for these types of individuals. I hope and pray that Patrick stays in prison for the duration of his natural life.


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  1. Article up

  2. Joyce, this gal sounds like she’s been SENT to gather information. And, I am not typing that perception from my Former Life of hyper-vigilance. It doesn’t make sense, on any level.

    She wrote, “I was intrigued with the story he told about his situation. He had said nothing about hurting you or your family and was very upset about what his friend had done.”

    First of all, the use of, “intrigued,” is inappropriate, even if she were uneducated, which it doesn’t appear to be so, judging by her grammar and expression. Then, she’s conveying what Patrick feels, which seems as if it’s a direct instruction, i.e., “Tell her this _____.”

    What is clear to me is that her contact with you is an attempt at 3rd Party (or, Back Door) contact, at the very, very least, and whatever role this gal is playing doesn’t matter. Your response was FABULOUS because it didn’t include ANY personal feelings, opinions, or emotions…………………..just plain facts. And that, my dear, is worth a million bucks. No emotions attached to that response means that you are in complete control of your own reactions and responses, and that you’re not allowing any further interactions. Very, very nice, Joyce………….wow, what a shiat-ton of recovery and healing you’ve accomplished!!!

    • and, for whatever reason…………when I checked the boards, today, and in the past few days, the new articles did not show up until I logged in………….

  3. Yes, if I wanted to help my elderly grandmother, I would definitely send a convicted sex offender to live with her. It just makes good sense. 😯

    And of course I wouldn’t tell my grandmother that I was sending him, I’d keep it just our little secret because, you know, sex offenders are known for liking to keep little secrets. So why not keep my sex offender friend happy? Plus, maybe my grandmother likes surprises!

    The most surprising thing is how bad spaths are at telling stories. No, I take that back, the most surprising thing is how often people will believe them just because they can lie without any semblance of guilt.

    • Sky! (snort) LMAO!!!!!!!!

      Right………he’s in prison for someone else’s crime, AND grandma’s helper was simply MISUNDERSTOOD! His INTENTIONS are misunderstood. Everything ABOUT him is Miss Understood.

      Sheeeeeesh……….and, they CAN lie without batting an eye which makes them so believable. When I confronted the second exspath with my discoveries, he was so taken aback because he hadn’t formulated a plan on this eventuality, yet, and so he spluttered, stammered, and made all kinds of wild allegations and blames while I just sat there and stared at him like he was a jellyfish. When I gave him NO emotions, he didn’t know what to do……….

      yah………this gal that wrote the email definitely has motive. What it is? Only she and the inmate know. Stay safe, Joyce……….

  4. LOL yea, I like your interpretations of the intent of that letter….I think Patrick has hooked this convict-groupie…and I don’t believe that she will believe or accept a word of the truth I told her…Patrick has got her totally convinced that she needs to help rescue him from Prison so they can be TOGETHER on the outside. LOL Of course he has also convinced my delusional mother that he wants to get out and come live with her and be her live in caregiver. LOL Yea, right. In fact, I think parole board needs to read this letter. LOL So I will include it in my packet next time.

    I think not being able to communicate with ME and get me to hear his story of what happened is frustrating to him, and he is trying to get me to call off my protest dogs so maybe he can get out. I think he realizes that I am protesting, UNFORTUNATELY at the time all this “went down” I was a BASKET CASE and I told Hamilton and Patrick both that I would hire an attorney and PROTEST his parole. Both Hamilton and Patrick reacted to that I think realizing that a mother protesting an inmate’s parole was a brilliant and probably successful way to keep someone in prison. LOL I of course should NOT have told them my plans, but at the time I was using it as a BLUFF, but at the same time, Patrick knows that when I BLUFF I bluff BIG…but at the same time, He also knows me well enough to know that when I need to, I will call that bluff and do what needs to be done.

    I had gone NC with patrick several times in the past years, and would not answer or even read his letters, but eventually he would get a letter through that would be “effective” and I would feel sorry for him. I’ve also gone NC with my mother before, for up to a couple of years at a time… but I’d fall into the “let’s pretend none of this happened and start over” and go back to a “relationship”

    In fact, I had actually “forgotten”: most of these episodes of NC with both Patrick and my mother, Isn’t it “strange” how we can RE-WRITE our history in relationships LOL Now I can remember them pretty well. But the difference this time is that there is NO GOING BACK on this one, NO PRETENDING none of this has happened or that the MOTIVES of my son or my mother were really “pure” LOL I can finally see the “bigger picture” of it all.

    I no longer have any pity for either of them, but I do have COMPASSION for those people who have abused me, who are incapable of having a truly loving relationship with me (or in Patrick’s case with anyone)

    Compassion and Pity are two entirely different things. If you pity someone you may try to “fix” their situation with is “pitiful” and believe me, I think a psychopath has a pathetic inner life without the ability to FEEL love and human connections, but I am not going to try to “fix”: them, but recognize their inability to be fixed. I feel compassion for any of God’s creatures who are maimed or injured by their choices or their disabilities, but that doesn’t mean that I want a relationship with them.

    Sky and Truthy, you are right that psychopaths don’t “get it” that their lies are not really “truthful” sounding. I laughed at Sky’s saying that if you wanted to send your grandmother some help you’d send a convicted sex offender. LOL Yea, I think that would definitely be the way to “help” LOL

  5. It’s true that they feel impotent if they aren’t performing for an audience. Joyce, since you refuse to be his audience, he will just send a puppet in his place!!

    It’s all about their need to express their drama on the stage of YOUR emotions. ugh! As my sister would say, “WHO HAS TIME FOR THAT?!?!”

    I agree that compassion is one of our greatest weapons against the spath because it prevents us from being filled with hatred toward our abusers. Pity, on the other hand makes us want to take responsibility for our abuser and that is a TRAP. So, yes, it’s important to know the difference, understand the fine line and stay firmly away from pity.

    • Sky, when we don’t respond with a meltdown of emotions and self-flagellation (it’s MY fault!), they are confounded and frustrated. They cannot imagine that the previously emotionally driven target is now factual, calm, centered, and balanced.

      I certainly don’t have time (or, desire) to entertain that situation, anymore. I don’t NEED to. 😉

  6. It’s so weird how they send substitutes. Sometimes it’s a substitute victim and sometimes it’s a substitute for themselves. It mimics religious rituals where anyone can change places with anyone else. Also reminds me of a theatrical production where actors change roles.

    That’s how these mechanisms stay hidden. You can’t see the mechanism because the roles can be reassigned. The people involved are just puppets or actors. The masks create the persona. It doesn’t matter who is playing what role as long as the drama continues.

    The answer is not to pay attention or play along.

    • I don’t find it weird at all that they may send someone in their place to do their dirty work. Why not?

      If the mission fails, they aren’t the one taking the fall for it. We’ve all seen the spaths work their tales of woe on others to see how far they can push the envelope and how far those minions will go to please their master, so to speak. Many of us may have been the minions at some point too.

    • One more thought on this. Of course they will send someone else!

      If it all goes wrong they will say “I didn’t do it”

      That would be about the only time they ever told the TRUTH!


  7. Yea, I will say they are persistent…my mother didn’t send Patrick any money for nearly a year, but he kept writing his begging letters and claiming to not be responsible for Hamilton’s actions and she eventually bought it and felt PITY for him and started sending him money then being supportive of him. I have fallen for that bait several times myself so I DO understand it.

    But I also realize that it isn’t “normal” behavior for someone who USTA knew an inmate in prison to write to their mother to get the “real story” and I know that psychopaths will keep on TRYING to somehow influence your thinking and pervert your justifiable fear of them.

    I realize it is important to Patrick that he get out, and he has I think convinced this young woman that he is “innocent” of all crimes and she needs to “save” him. LOL Just as he has convinced my poor mother that he has “found Jezus” and she needs to save him.

    In retrospect, I think I should NOT have responded at all…any attention gives them hope, even negative attention. If she contacts me again I will not respond. I realize that she will NOT believe me no matter if I showed her the police reports which are so horrible they would “curl your hair.” She’s a prison groupie “in love” with a poor pitiful innocent inmate whose mother is the wicked witch of the west. LOL

    • Joyce, you wrote, “In retrospect, I think I should NOT have responded at all…any attention gives them hope, even negative attention.” Well, here’s the bottom line of that – whether you “should” or “shouldn’t” have plays no part, today. But, what you CAN be absolutely 100% certain of is that you didn’t beg, plead, blame, self-blame, empathize, or tried to CONVINCE this gal that she was being used, duped, etc. What you did was state the facts.

      So, if she does contact you again (which I doubt), not responding is simply one of many options.

      And, no……………this gal wouldn’t believe the hard evidence, even if she saw it, herself. She doesn’t WANT to believe it. Right now, whatever relationship that she has with Patrick is believed (by HER) to be “safe” because he is behind bars, and the whole thing is titillating, tantalizing, and provocative for her. SHE could be “The One” to turn the poor, Miss Understood, and scapegoated lamb into what he SHOULD be. SHE could be “The One” to “save” him and, therefore, make herself valuable and worthwhile.

      As a strict aside and not (bold, italics, underlined) intended to generate anxiety, here………………I don’t know much about these things, but it might be another option to file a restraining order, or order of protection against this gal. I don’t know if it’s possible, or even if it would serve ANY purpose, but my gut feeling tells me that anyone – man, woman, child – that reaches out to contact ANY of Patrick’s relatives (especially, anyone who has fought AGAINST his parole) cannot have good intentions, no matter what they might mistakenly believe. If someone is THAT stupid to get involved with a prison inmate, then they’re stupid enough to be manipulated into doing something terrible on behalf of that inmate.

      • And, I want to clarify my use of the word, “stupid,” when referring to this woman that is doing Patrick’s legwork. He email sounded intelligent, enough. But, intellect does not, cannot, and will NEVER be a guarantee against being manipulated and abused by someone who is a psychopath.

        I consider myself fairly intelligent, and I bought the exspath’s con, entirely. I believed what he set forth because I desperately WANTED to believe that someone would care about me, love me, etc. I had NO “self-value” or sense of self-worth. So, my codependency created a dreadful VOID that I did not know how to fill, myself. I relied upon other people to fill that void FOR me.

        So, this gal might have a Master’s Degree, but she is NOT using her intellect for her OWN purposes. She is allowing someone else to manipulate it for THEIR purposes, and this makes her “feel” valuable, for whatever reason.

  8. Well, there’s another option I COULD have done and that was too play her along and see what SHE would say…but there ARE so many options and when we choose ONE, it closes off the others. Whatever would have been the “best” choice is a moot point now, I did respond to her and I didn’t write anything that I would be upset with having on the front page of teh State news paper.

    I DO think that I have her situation figured out. Patrick hasn’t had a cell phone that I know of inside prison since they caught him in 2006 with one and sent him to the “hole” so this woman has been in correspondence with him on the phone before 2006, and I am going to assume that in the meantime they wrote letters and who knows maybe she has gone to see him in prison.

    I don’t doubt that he has her conned, other wise it makes NO sense to me that out of the “blue” that not knowing if he’s even incarcerated any more she would contact me and ask me to tell her the full story while telling me that HE SAID XYZ…

    The article on here about prison pen pals is a good example. I deleted his posts but a guy named Dave who posts on the site “Prison Talk” is in “love” with an inmate on death row for killing her children in a horrible fashion. Reading on that site I find many posters who have met their inmate “love” either while they were in prison or on some pen pal site.

    If you think Match dot com is risky looking for a relationship, try “Prison Pen Pals” LOL

    But there are those who do that, thousands of them..who knows? maybe HUNDREDS of thousands who “hook up with” people like Charlie Manson and other serial killers.

    But I do think that at the very least I can use her e mail to prove that he was conning some woman with his cell phone.

  9. There’s a few things re that catch my untrained eye.

    1) If she’s so intrigued by Patrick’s story, why hasn’t she looked up the court records and if he is still incarcerated or not? It’s all public info and can usually be found online at no cost.

    2) Why has she waited all this time to contact you and try to ‘let you know’ that Patrick was ‘not aware’ of how Hamilton did what he did?

    3) What is she hoping to gain here?

    Common sense doesn’t play a big role in the spaths life. When looking a their ‘stories’ from this perspective, usually you can shoot enough holes in things to make Swiss cheese out of it.

    It sounds like she is phishing for information and in responding, if nothing else, now they know this email is a valid one for you. If she wanted to know, she would figure out a way to find out and look it up herself. Not looking it up is the lazy way out. “I’ll ask Joyce and let her tell me.” I doubt she read past the first sentence of your response anyways. Sometimes it is best not to respond and leave them guessing.

    If you do, keep it short, sweet and to the point. Your feelings are yours to own and you don’t have to explain or justify them to anyone. If they ask for more, just ask them why they need to know? What business is it of theirs anyways?

    • I agree Phoenix that no response is definitely a reasonable way to go…but I also wanted to send a message to Patrick that nuttin’s changed.

      The fact that he did send her to send me the e mail tells me though that he is GETTING DESPERATE and is grabbing at straws, ANYTHING to get out. LOL

      You are totally right, she could go on line to the Texas criminal justice department and find out all kinds of things, including where he is incarcerated and how long his sentence is and what his sentence is based on (murder)

      The Biggest mistake I think I made with him/them is that I TOLD Hamilton that if he didn’t quit messing with me I would PROTEST patrick’s parole…and though there is no way Patrick can know FOR SURE that I am doing it, my guess is that he has pretty well figured it out after nearly 9 years of set offs for his parole. Awh well…if she e mails me back I won’t respond again, but I doubt she will contact me again since the first one didn’t produce the result they wanted.

      I think she is like those Prison Talk groupies that pine away for the day their PRINCE gets out of prison to float them away to a castle in the sky! LOL

      • Joyce, you have both of them pegged. And, your response was the correct one when you delivered it. Sure, there are always options, but you are spot-on about choosing one – once it’s done, it’s done, and your choice to respond (NOT “react”) in the manner that you did was awesome. No sniveling, no begging, no gnashing of teeth! Just facts. And, NOTHING about yourself, personally.

        Yep……….she’s a gopher, to be sure.

  10. Thanks, Truthy, I’m not doing a big bad anxiety attack about “did I do the right thing?” like I have sometimes done in the past, you are right, it is done, and they are on notice that I’m not an idiot. I think one reason that Patrick hates me so much is that he sees me as a CHALLENGE and he wants to show me that he is smarter than I am. Well, he actually may be smarter than me, BUT his choices have not resulted in a lot of good things for him.

    Because he is a psychopath though, he blames ME for his failures. It is MY fault that he is ini prison for killing Jessica because I turned him in to the cops when he robbed our friends’ business. You know, that’s one of the hall marks of a psychopath is that they do NOT learn from the consequences of their actions, it is always someone else’s fault!

    In a way though, it did let me see that he has a NEW minion to do his bidding for him, and I am sure he has that woman conned to the hilt if she’s stuck around this long. I have no doubt that in a long distance “relationshit” he can pull the wool over her eyes. While she may be a well intentioned person, she is not a very WISE one.

    The prison inmate “groupies” are not just a FEW people (mostly women but not limited to women) the numbers, if the Prison Talk web site is any indication (and I think it is) number in the tens of thousands. It just astounds me! I guess it shouldn’t but it does.

    In any case, my goal is to keep him in prison by protesting his parole, but it does let me know that he is looking at having another place to crash if I keep him out of Arkansas and leave him broke when he gets out. And I think he will NOT want to come live with Grandma and take care of her, clean the house, dress her, etc.LOL I just don’t think his idea of free life is living with granny in the boondocks~! LOL

  11. I would worry that if he did ever get released, he could very likely move in with and eventually move in on granny. Middle of nowhere, boondocks or smack in the middle of the city. Why not? If she has something he needs or wants- shelter, a car, money…. He could likely take her up on it. … And in a fit of rage…. …

  12. Yea, I got another e mail from her, she apologized for spooking me, and explained that she had seen me post on Love Fraud and decided to contact me…that’s how she got my e mail as there is a link to the oxdrover e mail that she used…so anyway, she said she was sorry for spooking me and she mentioned that she knew about the Trojan horse “Kenny” and about the affair with my now ex DIL….so apparently she was still corresponding with him either by phone (he had a cell phone at that time) she said the guards smuggled it in for him, which is really about the ONLY way the cell phones can get into the prison. Actually I think many if not most of teh guards are as corrupt as the prisoner themselves.

    Oh, well, whatever…not sure what to believe about her but I know one thing, people who get seriously involved with prisoners do NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE IN FOR…The little girl that Patrick murdered knew he was on parole but she was only 17 and he is charming when he wants to be, so you know, she didn’t have time to learn many lessons about psychopaths and she paid for it with her life. But I’m not throwing rocks at her, he had me conned too, it is just that it was her he killed and not me. I think if he HAD moved back home, it would have been me he killed not her. He told me once that the reason he did NOT move back home was that “if I got into trouble again you’d turn me in to the cops” I told him, “You got that right, nothing has changed in that department” HE HAD NO INTENTION of “going straight” when he got out. He could have come home, gone to college, etc but that wasn’t what he wanted. He wanted the excitement of the con jobs and the risk taking and the thieving.

    I hope “Julie” is not involved with him, because if she is, she may pay the ultimate price for her involvement, just like Jessica did.

  13. Wow………….just…………..wow. She was sorry for “spooking” you? I didn’t get ANY of that in your response, Joyce.

    Whatever her agenda is, it’s not healthy. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    No, Patrick, like all psychopaths, can talk a BIG talk, but they always fall short when it comes to the pinpoint of whether or not they’re going to “do the right things.” If this gal is involved (which it sounds as if it is), then she’s either in the same family of disorders or utterly delusional and it’s just an observation, NOT a judgment. God knows, I’ve been there, myself.

    And, as far as the prison guards go……….they are an eyelash away from being behind bars, themselves. I never met ANY of the exspath’s coworkers that were not extraordinarily disordered and criminal in their behaviors.


  14. Well, I’m not sure if she was just googling folks from her past and came up with Patrick’s name…or if he sent her to try to convince me he sent a 3X convicted pedophile who’s spent his entire adult life in prisons to “help” the family.

    I found one letter in Hamilton’s possession after his arrest…it was TO Patrick and it said “What do I tell your mom?” and the answer was “Don’t worry about Mom, just get on Grandma’s side, she ALWAYS TAKES MY SIDE.”

    AFter the arrest of my DIL and Hamilton, my mother was moaning “BUT THEY ALWAYS TREATED ME WITH SUCH RESPECT!” meaning of course that they NEVER disagreed with her, never told her an unpleasant truth, or expressed an opinion.

    I’m also in possession of a letter from Patrick to my ex DIL in which he is apparently responding to some previous gripes she had about how my mother “didn’t show any gratitude” for all the things DIL did for her and he said something along the line of “Well don’t worry about the WORDS “thank you” she shows her GRATITUDE with (get this!!!) MONEY!!!!! LOL

    Naw, her “I’m sorry” e mail actually SOUNDED sincere and maybe even POSSIBLE, however, there is NO WAY in HAIL THAT I AM GOING TO TRUST THIS WOMAN or any other person who has been a “friend” of Patricks.

  15. The spath used to tell me that the only difference between being a guard and an inmate, is which side of the bars you’re on. Truth of it is, being a guard is8 hours a day in the slammer. Just like the inmates.

    The choice of words of ‘spooking you’ is an interesting one. If she looked you up on LF, then surely she’s found this website and all of the ‘to do’ over both emails.

    It doesn’t sound like she spooked you, but that she may not have gotten the reply she thought she would. Whether she hoped for something different or expected something different, we’ll never know, but I’m sure she probably wasn’t expecting what you delivered.

    Who knows if there was an agenda, what she hoped to gain or if she’s even still in contact with Patrick. Her apology may in fact, be sincere. We will never know, but rather than twist things around and blame you for them, she chose to apologize. The twisting of words, we know and expect. Spaths just do that. It’s in their playbook. The apology, some of us may not expect and we soften around the edges, allowing ourselves to slip a little and trust them.

    I know you will have your guard up Joyce and keep your Spidey Senses on High Alert, but we also can’t live our lives in fear of the “what if’s?” That can be just as damaging if not more so. Sometimes it can be a tough balance to reach. How far do we go? How much do we expose? How much info do we release and when do we shut them out altogether?

    I’m dealing with someone right now who stated in their first contact with me they want to be someone I trust, Best Friends, and all kinds of stuff. Though now they think I am somewhat cold, have a tough shell to crack and am ‘distant’ in our discussions. Maybe I am. Telling me you want to be my best friend, right off the bat? Sorry, but my best friends have 20+, 30+ and 40+ years on them. It doesn’t just happen overnight. Like they say on Shark Tank,/i> “…and for that reason, I’m out.”

  16. The spath used to tell me that the only difference between being a guard and an inmate, is which side of the bars you’re on. Truth of it is, being a guard is8 hours a day in the slammer. Just like the inmates.

    The choice of words of ‘spooking you’ is an interesting one. If she looked you up on LF, then surely she’s found this website and all of the ‘to do’ over both emails.

    It doesn’t sound like she spooked you, but that she may not have gotten the reply she thought she would. Whether she hoped for something different or expected something different, we’ll never know, but I’m sure she probably wasn’t expecting what you delivered.

    Who knows if there was an agenda, what she hoped to gain or if she’s even still in contact with Patrick. Her apology may in fact, be sincere. We will never know, but rather than twist things around and blame you for them, she chose to apologize. The twisting of words, we know and expect. Spaths just do that. It’s in their playbook. The apology, some of us may not expect and we soften around the edges, allowing ourselves to slip a little and trust them.

    I know you will have your guard up Joyce and keep your Spidey Senses on High Alert, but we also can’t live our lives in fear of the “what if’s?” That can be just as damaging if not more so. Sometimes it can be a tough balance to reach. How far do we go? How much do we expose? How much info do we release and when do we shut them out altogether?

    I’m dealing with someone right now who stated in their first contact with me they want to be someone I trust, Best Friends, and all kinds of stuff. Though now they think I am somewhat cold, have a tough shell to crack and am ‘distant’ in our discussions. Maybe I am. Telling me you want to be my best friend, right off the bat? Sorry, but my best friends have 20+, 30+ and 40+ years on them. It doesn’t just happen overnight. Like they say on Shark Tank, “…and for that reason, I’m out.”

  17. Phoenix, I learned quite a bit about people with Borderline Personality disorder when I worked at the adolescent in patient psych unit. One of the HALLMARKS of the person with BPD is that they INSTANTLY want to be your BEST FRIEND, and then if they go off on a terrible rant and threaten you, or even actually hurt you, in just a few minutes they are wanting to hug you and BE BEST FRIENDS again.

    I learned to shy away from people who INSTANTLY want to be my “best friend” and start VOLUNTEERING to do things for me (things I have not asked for)

    Frankly I think that BPD and psychopathy are very closely related, though there are some differences, but the two disorders have much in common. Also people with BPD frequently will fly into rages sort of like a psychopath when thwarted, and if you have had enough of these rages and want to get out of the relationship they may become stalkers etc.

    I could “tell you some stories” about them, but the bottom line is that if you see signs of a newly met person wanting to “be your best friend” RUN!!!! as fast as you can. Do NOT accept gifts or favors from these people because if you do, then it gives them the feelings that you owe them your affections and compliance.

    As for the “Julie” woman, you know, she may have found family arrested in her googling of me, it would be easy enough to do, if she was on LF and read some of my stories there, including the articles DONNA wrote about Patrick, it would be easy enough for her to get my e mail address off LF, but you know, she would have known the story from all my posts there, so you are right WHY CONTACT ME DIRECTLY? Especially if she saw the stories I have written about him. It isn’t like it is a big “secret” or anything. And who knows, she may have read on here as well, so again, if so, why contact me like she doesn’t know the REAL: story as published all over the internet. LOL

    You are right though, Phoenix, we’ll never know the real truth about her motivations and if she is a shill for Patrick, but there’s no reason to get upset about it or “spooked” because I don’t spook as easily as I “usta do” LOL

    • Joyce, you wrote, “ou are right though, Phoenix, we’ll never know the real truth about her motivations and if she is a shill for Patrick, but there’s no reason to get upset about it or “spooked” because I don’t spook as easily as I “usta do”.” EXACTLY

      And, the borderline personality female? Oh, dear lord…..

      Phoenix, the second exspath is an employee for a State correctional facility. The individuals in his office were ALL aware of what he was doing, and some of them were not only enabling his activities, but were involved in the same interests. Prison employees are of a different sort.

      Now, on the FLIP side of this, I have a friend who works at a prison and he took that position strictly for the income – he hates it, there, but he’s making enough to get his home paid for and set aside some income in the form of retirement and other investments. But, it still begs the question, “What does that kind of constant NEGATIVE environment DO to someone who is NOT disordered?” Well, we know about the studies and it’s not encouraging.

      For my part, I am VERY cautious of anyone – ANY ONE – who is in a position of “authority.” Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

  18. Diane Sawyer did a 20/20 episode on women in prison and she interviewed different women and wardens etc. There was a woman who had been in 36 years for a crime of robbery that turned deadly when one of the others involved killed two people. She was 18 at the time. Now she is, I think, sincerely sorry for what she did and is no longer a danger to society, but chances are that she will not get parole when she comes up next year (5 times she has been before the parole board)

    She also interviewed others that were younger that showed intelligence and remorse in believable ways…then she did a sit down interview with two “neighbors” on death row, and they told how their boy friends had gotten them involved in some kind of robbery that turned into murder…though they did not know each other before they came to prison, I guess since their cells were close and they could talk (death row cells are solitary cells) they had formed a friendship. The one on the left seemed to be the leader and when Diane would ask a question to the other girl, the “:leader” would just SLIGHTLY shake her head and cut her eyes to keep the other one from saying anything. Both tried to lay the entire blame for them being on death row to their partners, not assuming any responsibility themselves. Diane also showed a photo which was evidence presented at trial showing the woman on the left and her BF that pulled the trigger CELEBRATING after the robbery and killing.

    I was sitting there thinking, “these women and psychopaths” and “I don’t believe a word they are saying, they are not sorry, trying to put the blame on others…etc”

    When that segment ended before I said those thoughts out loud, my son got up to walk to the kitchen and said “I don’t believe a word either one of those women said…they are both psychopaths.” LOL I guess he has learned something from the psychpathic experience too.

    • Joyce, I firmly believe that not everyone behind bars is a psychopath or sociopath – I truly believe this. But, my beliefs about psychopathology have changed dramatically in the last few years and I also FIRMLY believe that over 90% of inmates ARE sociopaths and psychopaths. The reason that I believe this is that these people end up doing the same things that they did that landed them behind bars, in the first place. The do not stop just because they’ve served time.

      For a long time, there was this discussion about inmates being “institutionalized” so that they COULDN’T function outside of the structured confines of prison. I no longer believe that to be true. I believe that recidivism is the result of an individual that simply DOES NOT CARE – they will do whatever they wish UNTIL they are caught. The time that they spend in their respective facilities is NOT spent rewiring the criminal behaviors – it’s simply more reprobate education and time is spent planning, scheming, and IMAGINING retribution, revenge, and new and more creative crimes to commit. That’s what I finally believe, at this point.

      Having been married to a corrections employee, I can say that the guards and administration are no better than the inmates that they babysit. The very scant number of upstanding and honest employees are far, far overshadowed by the devious and manipulative ones. They are NOT represented by the characters in “The Green Mile.” No, they are not.

      What I find morbidly fascinating is how easily these people lie about even the most simplest things. As if the fact that they didn’t buy milk on the way home from work was going to stop the earth on its axis, or something? JEEEEEEEEEEEZ, looooeeeeez.

  19. Truthy, the research done by Dr. Hare shows that the AVERAGE score on the Psychopath Check list Revised is 22, that means that HALF the inmates score lower than that, and half higher. If you remember your BELL CURVE from school, the MAJORITY of the individuals score just above or below that number…and as you proceed to the right of the middle, the curve goes down as fewer and fewer individuals score that “high” and the same for the left side of the curve. Using IQ as an example in a bell curve, the score “100” is the middle, and about 80 percent are within the ranges 80-120 which is “normal” but there are some few out on the fringes of each side, either very severely retarded or very bright.

    In judging the quality of psychopaths on a bell curve, it is the same. The difference is, that it takes 30 points on the PCLR to be considered a psychopath (out of a possible 40 points) so according to this study, with the AVERAGE score of all inmates being 22, that means that in the neighborhood of 75% of the inmates are NOT what you would want to take home and keep for a “pet” (the average score for people in the community is 4-5)

    That’s also why the recidivism rate is somewhere between 45 and 65% in many areas.

    I see folks in the news crying “we need prison reform” and I agree…but they talk about “non violent” crime (like robbery, car theft etc”) like it was VICTIMLESS crime and the person should be sentenced to “community service”

    I do agree that many drug users would do better with a “rehab” type program, but the problem with that is that FORCED rehab SELDOM if EVER works. The majority are going to go back to using the minute the door to the rehab or the jail swings open.

    The Stanford Prison Experiment showed that just taking normal college kids and “labeling” them prisoner or guard CHANGED the guards and hardened their hearts, making them abuse the “prisoners’ and the prisoners began to respond differently as well.

    That tendency I think is what made some of the people in Germany become what they became when they worked in the Nazi prison camps. Of course, some were psychopaths to start with and only got free rein to do what they wanted to before the Nazis gave them a license to torture.

    In reading history and looking at it through the lens of psychology you can see that many “leaders” were both psychologically and culturally psychopaths by today’s thinking.

    I look at what is going on in the middle east right now and I see not JUST a “religious” war but a culture that is based on 7th century ideals. I can look back at the history of “religion” in Europe and I can see the Christian people that Christians burned at the stake because of some tiny difference in beliefs. The wars between Christians and Muslims have gone on since the Prophet was alive and he approved of this, so the culture as well as the religion is based upon this warlord’s ideas of God and society.

    In any kind of political conflict the psychopaths will jump in. Currently, the news has covered the identification of Jihiad John the British citizen who is the one who is beheading the captives on video and looking at his early life, etc. and I see the perfect “stew” of someone disordered and disaffected who has now found his control, his power, his place in history and is wallowing in the new sense of self importance. I really don’t believe he or most of the ones in power are really doing this for “religion” but using that as an excuse for legitimacy.

    I’ve spent some time in African countries that are primarily Muslim, and I’ve known quite a few Muslims from Iran who live in this country. I’ve had friends married to Muslim men, and 100% of those women I knew were abused. Of course not ALL Muslim men abuse their wives, but some do. The cultural thinking of what is “right” is different.

    In my own rural Southern culture (Scots Irish) male children were held in higher esteem than female children…men were “allowed” to do things (such as cheat) that the wife would NEVER have been allowed to do without SEVERE consequences. In my own family, my mother’s psychopathic brother, my “Uncle Monster” was protected from both public shame and from the consequences of his behavior. NO one confronted him about this, no one went NC with him, they ignored the “elephant” in the room. Pretended “none of this ever happened.” God forbid that we should ever EMBARRASS Uncle Monster by confronting his violent behavior, just pretending it didn’t happen was the “solution.”

    “Religion” was also used to foster this behavior. “If you don’t forgive (pretend it didn’t happen) then YOU are going to go to hell” I was never comfortable with this I realize now, but at the same time, I bought into this in many ways, until one day Uncle Monster did something so horrible I never had anything to do with him again. He held my grandmother at gun point for three days and nights, threatening her.

    I have since come to my own definition of “forgiveness” rather than the one that my family tried to cram down my throat. I no longer believe or try to believe that “forgiveness” means we have to passively allow someone else to abuse us, and that someone who abuses others (me or someone else) is not someone I want to associate with. But I also realize that holding on to BITTERNESS against those abusers/offenders is not good either, that bitterness hurts US, not them. So I have worked hard on ACCEPTANCE rather than bitterness, and to me THAT is “forgiveness”

    In intimate situations from time to time we ALL hurt others to one extent or another, and when we hurt someone we should repent, apologize (a sincere acknowledgement that we are aware we hurt them, and that we were wrong, and that we will do our best to never do such a thing again) and when some one hurts US and sincerely apologizes we must if the relationship is to continue, get the bitterness our of our heart. You cannot continue a healthy relationship while you continue to be bitter toward another. So we must look at each relationship and decide if the person is truly sorry, if the overall way they treat is is kind and respectful, etc. and if NOT then we need to discontinue that relationship but also in either case, get rid of the bitterness toward them. It “ain’t easy McGee” as my grandfather would have said. It sure AINT’T easy!

  20. Having been fairly recently contacted by another one of Patrick’s prison-groupies who says that she “knows him better than I do” because she has written to him since 1992 and that I only know him as a teenager and that he has changed (LOL) which actually makes me laugh, as I have a foot locker full of letters from him to Hamilton which outline in great detail how to smuggle items into the prison in craft shop supplies, how to manipulate my mother, and that Patrick thought it was A-OK for Hamilton to have a sexual relationship with Patrick’s brother’s wife….having recently come into possession of the actual name of this woman, not the fake name she used here on FA, and seen a photograph of her, and read some of Patrick’s letters about her, I realize he is manipulating this woman for a place to parole to in Texas, if and when he gets out, because he will sure not be able to parole to Arkansas.Though he has convinced my mother that he will get out and come live with her here on our farm and take care of her. LOL (Read: send money)

    Patrick does not do well with boredom, and the most excitement he can produce is pulling one over on the cops by getting away with a crime. This is very typical of psychopaths (anti-social personality disorders). Unfortunately needy women or men who have not been able to form a healthy and lasting relationship attachment can “bond” with the manipulator who “love bombs” them, and the “relationshit” they form is produced by a fantasy that they build in their heads and convince themselves is real.

    How do you combat a fantasy? How do you convince someone that they are being taken for a ride on a flying magic carpet that will only result in their being harmed….dumped at best, or like Jessica, killed? Jessica had no idea what Patrick was capable of? She died because she was naive. Believe me it is only the grace of God that I didn’t die from some of the very very POOR relationship choices I have made in the past.”Too soon old and too late smart!” Is my mantra today. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

    The ability of intelligent psychopaths to manipulate needy people, male or female, especially if that psychopath has been exposed to civilized society, is unbelievable. Some psychopaths like Charlie Manson who have come up through the foster system etc. have very little couth and can only manipulate those on the bottom rung of society, but Patrick has had private schools, been to church, and knows how normal folks think, so he can manipulate a wider range of folks from the bottom rungs of society to those a bit higher up. Fortunately most people with any sense at all will not be attracted to a convict no matter how much he can present a word picture of how he has been misjudged by his “mean old” mother.

    So I imagine that which ever of his prison groupies seems to be the best option for him will find out the hard way that playing with dynamite can be fatal. But like most of the crimes he has committed, he will be caught and put back into prison where he WILL spend his natural life there. The crimes he has successfully committed are few and far between.

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