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But for the grace of God… — 21 Comments

  1. Joyce, this is a horrible tragedy – what person ever wants to BE in such a position as to have to take the life of a family member in order to save their own?

    The daughter trashed the family home and stole items, then fled somewhere with her boyfiend? I know so many stories like this that didn’t end in murder. And, there probably won’t be much more information on this tragic event.

    I don’t understand how murdering someone is ever a good option. If there was some kind of tension or “hatred,” then the daughter could have just walked away and started a new life, somewhere else. Instead, a whole group of people are now deceased through violence.

    It just makes me shake my head.

    • What I got out of the story, mostly by inference is the trashing the house and the thefts were YEARS AGO when she was 20, that that she was now married and much older (her brother was 47) and that the feud had gone on for years and years and that this was the final chapter in a LONG SAGA of hate.

      I likened her hate of her parents for NCing her and the feud that resulted to Patrick’s hate of me for truning him in to the cops for stealing my car and for robbing our friend’s business. “It all started when Johnny hit me back:”

  2. Joyce,

    When I was in high school, back in the late stone ages, there were twin girls in my class. Something was “just not right” about these two. I don’t even remember them getting picked on or made fun of because they were that far out of the norm. They were both under 5 feet tall and very overweight. They kept to themselves (where have we heard that before).

    Several years after graduation, the one twin and her husband bludgeoned her parents to death. I remember, at the time, not being terribly “shocked” by the murder, but the reason they gave for killing them BLEW ME AWAY. Seems her parents had refused to give them money for ballet lessons……….. (refer to my description of the girls) I think even the fact that this girl had a husband was more of a shock.

    Sometimes, when you have some direct knowledge of the family and the extreme dysfunction, that sometimes goes back generations, you are horrified, disgusted but not really shocked.

    I wonder if there is a story behind this story. It is just a tragedy all the way around.

  3. Yea, definitely a tragedy and probably won’t be much more “let out” about it than has already been published.

    The “reason” for the killing by the short heavy woman may be just like Patrick’s “reasons” for killing Jessica were my “abuse” of him as a child. LOL They have to come up with SOME “reason” for doing such a thing but they don’t realize that that “reason” is not believable.

    The thing that makes this one case interesting to me is the feud part of it, and the fact that the father was able to defend himself from her. He obviously (to me at least) had access QUICKLY to a weapon, and I would think that was because he ALREADY FEARED HER

    My late husband came from Hazard, Perry County, Kentucky, The feuds there go back to 1806 (or earlier maybe) and resulted from various disputes and revenge for slights and attacks and counter attacks, so the “family feud” is an all too common thing…but this story just takes it to a new level with the father killing his wife’s killers, his daughter and SIL.

  4. UPDATE: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2437159/Pennsylvania-home-invasion-Family-feud-inheritance-ends-4-dead.html

    Here’s a more detailed update on this tragedy…notice the comments from readers. Those are very telling. One man even commented that having a handy gun was a bad thing…well I see it as having a gun in this case saved at least ONE LIFE…calling 911 just wouldn’t have cut it in this case. SELF defense is the ONLY option in such cases.

  5. There’s nothing like the curse of a crazed family member.
    You’re danged if you do and you’re danged if you don’t go NC with them.

    This reminds me of another family murder.
    http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2004096062_sixdead28m.html

    It was the Christmas massacre of 2007. Her family let her live on their property and that wasn’t enough for her.

    Geez Milo, ballet lessons?
    I think that takes the cake. really.

    You never know what a narcissistic injury will beget.

  6. Sky you are right about that, “you never know what a narcissistic injury will beget:” My turning Patrick in to the cops when he was 17 (it would have been a slap on the wrist and no adult record) was the FIRST BIG N injury that is what drives patrick to hate me Of course there’s been more injuries since then.

  7. What a twisted and screwed up mess. It’s good that the father had the gun to do the job, but so sad that it all came to this.

    The daughter could have easily moved on- new town, new start, new life… but I think part of what causes this is a need for revenge. She had to have the last word and get the last ‘jab’ in at any expense. The spaths and disordered obviously know no limits or have any sense of boundaries, so death is certainly an option if things ever go that far.

  8. Phoenix, I agree – that thirst for revenge can become obsessive, even for those who aren’t disordered. For the disordered, that obsession is the fuel that feeds their rage, which feeds their envy, which feeds their rage…..ad nauseum.

    There was a point when I felt that Mike might try to murder the exspath and me. In fact, we kept our bedroom door locked for a while.

    Mike’s father used to threaten to “hunt (me) down” if I ever tried to leave him.

    After the exspath left, I firmly believed that he would send one of the convicts that he had worked with to murder me. I still believe that he would have done that if he’d had the opportunity.

    There are some things that I just cannot fathom. Following through with murderous idealization is one of them.

  9. The human brain has been proven to get a “shot” of “feel good chemicals” during the contemplation of revenge, and I believe it.

    I have FELT that desire for revenge, and for a while let it eat at me, let me literally plot murder, but in the end, I could not DO it, and realized that even the DESIRE for revenge was POISONING ME…I had to get control of it. The advice given by Jesus to “not let the sun go down upon your wrath” is good advice.

    Wrath is not SIMPLE anger, but “fermented” anger that is FED with hate, and it is a terrible thing. Jesus advice to “be ye angry and sin not” is also good advice. ANGER that is JUSTIFIED is perfectly understandable, natural and OK, but we must not let that anger over come us and become wrath. Even Jesus was ANGRY so angry he made a whip and drove the money changers out of the temple. Getting angry at injustice or malice or injury is normal and okay, we just must NOT let it eat at us.

  10. Where we may ‘want’ revenge and think about getting it, we know when and where to stop. The spaths seem to need it. They just don’t care and don’t let emotions get in their way. It’s justified in their minds, to right whatever wrongs we have committed against them.

  11. Joyce & Phoenix, yes……anger is a normal and reasonable reaction. Wrath (or, rage) is exactly as Joyce describes: fermented anger.

    Phoenix, you are spot-on when you type that spaths “just don’t care.” They don’t. They maintain a sense of entitlement that is beyond my ability to comprehend – they are ENTITLED to their rage and/or wrath, and they are entitled to “do something about it.”

    There’s a trial, underway, of a man who killed his wife for insurance money – National exposure makes this a high-profile trial, of course. But, this man sits in the courtroom and reflects not a single variance of emotion – either sadness that his wife was found strangled after “disappearing,” nor anger at the testimony of witnesses that will likely convict him. He’s just THERE…..crazy.

  12. Truthy, the “flat affect” (i.e. expression) can be from any number of things, not just “don’t care” A recent study points out that psychopaths can imagine and empathize with THEIR pain, but have no feelings for others’ pain. But while some people say they are “emotionless,” I disagree; rage, wrath, envy, malice, are all emotions, it i s the caring, empathetic emotions that are lacking when the pain concerns others.

  13. Joyce, I agree with that, 100%. It seems that spaths can most certainly “feel” rage, envy, contempt, and hatred. And, they most certainly “feel” these things when they are “denied” what they believe they are entitled to, regardless of what they are denied, and how.

    The former-business partner was SO disordered that I called off the partnership before it ever began. This guy could turn the most mundane and insignificant event into a personal tragedy for HIM. He would use any situation as an opportunity to elicit pity, and then treat those who felt pity with absolute contempt. He’s an angry little man and wholly malicious.

    The first clue was in reference to people who committed suicide. His remark was, “Someone kills themselves, that’s fine. More food for me.” At first, I thought he was joking, but such a remark is NOT humorous – it was GLIB.

    Then, he began to actually brag about things that he had done to people to drive them crazy. And, he laughed about these things as if they were simply the most comical events, ever.

    It’s the ones that are so talented at presenting the illusions of care, concern, and empathy for others that are so hard to peg. BUT………as Joyce has often typed, these people will eventually “out” themselves on their own. Watch. Wait. Observe. Listen. Reserve the “pity” or urgency to HELP and the person’s own behaviors and choices will give clear evidence of what they are.

  14. I just finished reading a book about the “Dating Game KIller” the guy that took photographs of young girls, as a way to get close to them, then SAVAGELY tortured, raped and killed them. Dr. Liane Leedom was photographed by this monster, I won’t even say his full name. The murders happened only a few years after he got out of prison for SAVAGELY raping an 8 year old, fortunately she lived, but horribly emotionally and physically scarred. He managed too escape the scene when the cops actually caught him, and had a new identity in NY for several years where he apparently raped and killed others which were unsolved until DNA for cold cases became possible.

    The thing is he only got about 2 years for that rape, several years AFTER the fact, and immediately started raping and killing again in southern LA area.

    Talk about “dodged a bullet” and “but for the grace of God there go I” for Liane, this book sent shivers down my back. It was an unemotional presentation of the EVIDENCE in the cases. This man makes Ted Bundy look like the tooth fairy and the “justice” (should read IN-JUSTICE I THINK) system was played and played. Thirty plus years AFTER the fact the man is still getting convictions reversed and new trials that last weeks. He gets what he wants ATTENTION! Fortunately, he has been in prison since about 1980, most of that time on California’s death row. Chances of him actually being executed are pretty slim to none, but he is ENJOYING his time in court.

    At one trial, the last one for five brutal murders he played a clip from Arlo Gutherie’s satirical Alice’s Restatrant where he went on the rant and screamed “I wannna kill kill kill” for the jury as his summation. WTF????

    I do NOT recommend this book, because of it’s horribly graphic nature, but I ordered it only because I know Liane and didn’t know much about this monster.

    Skylar dodged a bullet with the Green River killer, hitching a ride with him. When she told him she was NOT a hooker, he let her go.

    I think many of us have dodged bullets through the grace of God in our associations with offenders of many levels. they don’t have to be crazed sociopathic serial killers like the Green River killer or the Dating Game killer (he was on that TV show back in the 70s)

    Other people are not so fortunate and have died just because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why them and not us? There is no answer to that, but I am GRATEFUL that I escaped. If I can convince even ONE person to get away, and stay away from offenders, and to be cautious in meeting and trusting new people in their lives, not paranoid, just careful and cautious, without living in fear and paranoia, then I will feel that my brush with death means something.

    My advice to people about watch and observe how people treat others, and KNOW that they will eventually treat YOU the same way. Just like I would advise someone not to go out with a married man because if he will cheat on her, he will cheat on you. *(or a married woman) Tigers do NOT change their stripes.

  15. Joyce,

    I would have a hard time reading the book about the serial killer. Regarding serial killers, I’ve been reading news articles (online) about the ex-NFL football player, Aaron Rodriguez – so far, he’s a prime suspect in three murders. I’m wondering how many other people he’s killed – when did he do his first killing? Is he a serial killer? There are people (eg. his fiancee, a female cousin, friends, etc.) who are in trouble with the law, because of their association with him, what they agreed to do on his behalf. He is one scary individual, a true psychopath, no doubt about it.

  16. Blue, I agree with your assessment of this man’s character, and A. Rod isn’t much better,, though I don’t think he’s killed anyone, but “entitled” and “arrogant” willing to break the rules (doping) along with Lance Armstrong etc. way too many of the sports and media “heroes” are out of control IMHO.

    And yes, apparently Aaron Hernandez got his friends to help him, which tells me that they are not better than him. This type of disordered indivdual seems to attract more disordered individuals and things just spiral out of control.

    I had a hard time reading the book as well, but did read it because of the connection with Dr. Liane Leedom…she really dodged a bullet on that one. She said when he took her picture he took her into his mother’s house and she could tell that his mother was upset about him having her there but was to young to understand WHY. What if mama hadn’t been home? maybe he thought his mom was not home.

    The 8 year old he raped he picked up along the street and took her to his apartment, it was only a very aware by stander that saw him pick her up and followed them to his apartment and then called the police. As it was if they had been 10 seconds later the girl would have been dead. He escaped out the back door and lived incognito for several years in NY…they think he killed several women in NY as well, and possibly boys as well. Supposedly he was going to be tried in 2010 in NY but I haven’t had time to follow up and see if they did try him yet. He reminds me of ted bundy, loves the trials and the attention.

    I would NOT recommend that book to anyone who might be triggered though, it is as spare as a police report….and as chilling.

    • I don’t know if “serial killer” would apply to Hernandez, or not, but it seems that people around this guy get dead in a quick hurry.

      My mother used to read true-crime paperbacks, and I began picking them up, at some point. I don’t know what the morbid fascination was, but even Ann Rule (worked with Bundy, at one point) would present the facts and it seemed as if these stories were works of fiction. The facts of the stories were so horrific and unimaginable, that I “knew” that the crimes had been committed, but I wasn’t able to accept that they were “actual” crimes, if that makes any sense.

      Although it has been quite masterfully marketed, I cannot (and, WILL not) read “50 Shades Of Grey.” This book was released at almost the precise time when I discovered what the exspath had been doing, for years, without my knowledge. The book is a porn novel that attempts to romanticize sexual deviance, and “truth is stranger than fiction” applies, here.

      I imagine that Hernandez will go out with a big smile and a wave to the crowd – such is the arrogance and disorder of such people. EW……..just………ew

  17. Truthy, I think there is “serial killer” “spree killer” and “mass killer” with serial killer being a series of killings, I think it is 4 to qualify. I know what you mean about those “fictional” stories of horror as not being somehow “real”–I think accepting some of this stuff is completely TRUE is more than our human minds can take in.

    I think somehow it is like reading scary stories to keep the boogyman from the door, or watching a scary movie, to be frightened in a “safe” way. No one really believes it will HAPPEN TO THEM!!! Not ME!!@

    That’s the thing we MUST wrap our heads around is that it CAN happen to us if we dont’ learn the signs of those offenders who are prone to this kind of violence.

    Sometimes it is not “seen” before it breaks out into some dread event, but frankly most times it IS SEEN just like the patches on a diamond back rattle snake’s body scream DANGER DANGER if we know what to look for.

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