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Hybristophilia — 18 Comments

    • WOW………………creepy, creepy!!

      And, I’d like to throw this out there, just for discussion’s sake since you added this word to my vocabulary! LOL!!! Okay…….what IS it about spaths and their need/compulsion to view graphically violent imagery?!

      I think that the expath may have been a passive hybristophiliac. He certainly had a “veiled” interest in necrophilia, and was way, way into extreme BDS&M, but he also viewed graphic violent imagery on various “shock” websites that have photos of wreck victims, train wrecks, gunshots, autopsies, etc.

      The female ex-con that was “his” friend was also very interested in this kind of imagery, and would sit with her laptop and browse shock sites for brutal imagery.

      There’s something about this and psychopaths/sociopaths and the way that their minds are wired. EXCELLENT article, and really intriguing.

  1. In discussing the dangers of being “pen pals” with criminals, especially criminals that are well known and VIOLENT–that young woman who is “engaged” to the 80 year old Charlie Manson is a perfect example of this new word (to us new at least! LOL) And Jeffrey Dahlmer had 14 women writing him that he professed “undying love” for when he was killed.

    I think on the part of the violent convict or serial killer, the “reward” for THEM is that they are conning a “straight” person, and using up a bunch of the TIME which is boring to them, AND in the case of this naive little old lady, they get a few small gifts or commissary money.

    Frankly I was conned by a couple of Patrick’s friends that he had write me with sob stories, and one of them is very probably INNOCENT of the crime he is doing life for (a brutal murder) the INNOCENCE PROJECT is working on his case and they usually don’t spend much time on guys who are really or even likely guilty—I check this out to verify it–but over the years he sent me these letters claiming to be a choir boy…of course he was and is nothing of the kind! I even sent him a few bucks a month for commissary money because he had no family (he said) that would or could.

    A few years ago he sent me an affidavit from his attorney who is doing a LONG stretch in Federal pen –his lawyer detailed the “facts” of the case, but also added a bunch of other stuff that made it plain that the lawyer himself was a smart alec psychopath of the most narcissistic type. The man I was writing to may not have killed the person he was convicted of, that’s possible, but let me tell you he has a violent criminal past and previous convictions for those.

    After I realized what he was (after I had gone NC with Patrick) Joe kept writing me and saying that he did not approve of what Patrick had done. Etc. I have no –NONE– doubt that he was writing to me for Patrick so he could find out what I was thinking and or doing. So I continued to write to this guy giving him FALSE information…..I even had him convinced I spent a year in Austrailia. by having a friend who lived there send me picture post cards, and I would write on them and address them to him, then send them back to her and she would mail one a week for quite some time. LOL I even photo shopped some pictures to send to him “showing” me down under on a whale watching trip. LOL

    I have “traveled” all over the US the same way I went “Down Under” mainly to just mess with Patrick’s mind about where I am and how difficult I would be to keep track of. Any DIS-information to that group is GOOD information.

    Oh, and years ago when I first started writing to Joe, he was a non believer in God, and the last few years his letters are filled with quotes from the Bible and “God Bless” you’s. Funny how he suddenly found Jezus, huh? About the same way that Ken Hamilton joined my mother’s church when he moved into her house. LOL I am sure that Patrick told Hamilton to do that and there are references in his letters to Hamilton about that.

    This poor older lady who is obviously a religious person (she talked about her church charity work) but she doesn’t realize that even the MOST EVIL PERSON is not evil 24/7, in between evil acts they can act “very respectful and kind.” If he heard him talk to the other convicts about that “crazy old witch sent me another hundred bucks for my commissary account…boy do I have her snowed” LOL she would realize he is what he is, but as long as he behaves “respectfully” and nice to her, she is under his spell because she can’t believe someone would be THAT evil and still “respectful.”

    The groupie that is “engaged” to Charlie Manson I think.is most likely a perfect example of this word…and maybe a bit delusional as well. I can only imagine how crushed her parents are (they know about this and her father has given interviews) They haven’t cut off contact with her but the relationship is “strained.”

    I guess there is a name for EVERY-thing. LOL But this was sure a new word to me.

  2. Joyce, I knew a few gals who had become inmate “pen pals,” and it was pretty creepy. It’s fascinating that there’s actually a “philia” that describes this behavior, but I just don’t “get” the psychology behind it.

    It’s not as if they can actually have a “real” relationship with these………..inmates. But, it’s this ongoing hazing by both parties, and there’s all of the se-x-ual content that is titillating, and then there’s this “soul mate” nonsense – this “spiritual” bond between these people, and it’s nuts. It’s a cycle of insanity that I cannot wrap my head around.

    It is, indeed, amazing at how many inmates find religion when they’re inside, particularly those who have a chance at parole.

    For me, it’s unthinkable to take a convict’s word as their bond, regardless of what I might “want” to believe. I have to see – literally see – the truth in their assertions, and that would require entirely too much time. I have not a single shred of interest in getting “close” to anyone who’s been incarcerated. Could they be innocent? SURE, they could! But, I don’t have that kind of interest – I’m sorting myself out, and I’ll leave that up to someone else who has an interest in it.

  3. I think your comment about the titilation and the se-xual energy and the fantasy that they build up that is “more real” than REAL life. The people I think who engage in this are 1) doo gooders who are naive like that older lady, and 2) those that are thrill seekers or 3) totally delusional people…..like those stalkers who form “bonds” with famous singers or actors and stalk them.

    Yea, it is kind of funny to have a name for this behavior but I guess there are lots of names for lots of mental disorders and conditions. Funny though…psychologists can agree on a name for this obscure disorder but can’t decide between psychopathic Personality disorder, sociopathic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder. LOL To most laymen anti-social sounds like someone who wants to be a hermit, but in professional jargon the anti simply means AGAINST the rules of society. LOL

    Of course not all people with personality disorders are criminals and not all criminals are personality disordered….but in general, folks who are violent have a high degree of psychopathic personality traits. But most of us have been raised to believe that “everyone deserves a second chance” and “there’s good in everyone” but frankly I do not believe either of those statements. I’m with you, I’ll pass on the relationships with criminals…either in or out of prison.

  4. Joyce,
    how interesting! I didn’t know that there was a name for it either.
    I wonder if it is connected to stockholm syndrome or trauma bonding. It seems like one of them is conscious and the other is more subconscious, yet the resulting behavior is the same: we provide supply for the spath.

  5. Sky, I think there are definite DIFFERENCES in the stockholm syndrome verses this problem. In this case the person SEEKS OUT the violent psychopath to bond with, where as in the stockholm syndrome the abuser has the victim under control and continually abuses them then ceases the abuse until the lack of abuse is perceived as kindness by the victim.

    In the case of someone who is SEEKING a serial killer or other violent criminal to bond with, I think the definition of “delusional” is pretty right on. That gal who is “engaged” to Charlie Manson is the perfect example of this kind of thing. I think the older lady is simply naive and good hearted and finds it difficult to see the truth of the violence this man is capable of since he “acts so respective” of her

    But like you I had no idea there was a NAME for the condition in people like Manson’s girlfriend. LOL.

  6. SO………….is this disorder a “learned” condition, or is it something hard-wired, or a little of both? I’m no expert, but it seems that these women (and, men) who seek out the truly psychopathic and depraved convicts hare something missing in their own lives. Whatever “it” is is terribly disturbing.

    When I was 14, I had a friend who had become a “pen pal” to an inmate in a Henrico prison. I don’t know what he was doing time for, but it was so effing SICK. She was only 14 years old, and they were writing these disturbing intimate letters, back and forth, and he finally escaped and she was whisked away because authorities were concerned that he was going to find her.

    I’ve known other gals that did the same thing – they became “pen pals” to these guys that are incarcerated. The men would proclaim their innocence and write these long letters declaring their “love” and would go into great detail about what they envisioned “doing” with these women when they were paroled or released. It was extremely creepy to me, personally, because most of these guys weren’t “getting out” for many years. And, these women would insist that they’d WAIT for them because they were “really good, inside,” and had made mistakes – THEY would help these men to realize their true potential. JEEEEZ it was creepy.

  7. Truthy, I think the problem is both hard wired and environmental as are most psychological problems with behavior.

    The prisoners give the “love bomb” to the person on the outside…and the person on the outside has this “need” for attention, and praise and to feel special…and may also be someone who is a “rescuer” and they have to “save” the poor inmate who is really “good down inside” in spite of what they did, or they are “innocent” ya da, ya da, ya da….

    It is also I think like some people become “groupies” of famous singers, actors, etc. because some how they feel that by being “close” to a famous person the glory reflects off on to them.

    And as the definition says, they are “delusional” in some ways….

    I corresponded not only with my own son Patrick that I fantasized I was going to “rescue” when he got out, but with his friends for DECADES and you know though there were no sexual overtones to my correspondence with these men….I was like the little old lady, envisioning that these men were sorry for what they did….although one of Patrick’s friends, “Joe” is probably innocent of the murder he is in for, the Houston Innocence Project is on his case and are fighting to get DNA tested…they don’t usually take cases where it is not pretty clear the guy is actually INNOCENT…but….a BIG BUT….he sent me a copy of an affidavit his lawyer wrote to help him get out….the affidavit was sent from FEDERAL PRISON where his lawyer is unhappily incarcerated and essentially told Joe’s life story….and that of his parents….and tried to make the fact that Joe fled to south America after the murder not look like showing guilt for the crime. And he talked about how Joe’s parents had started cooking meth to raise bail money and lawyer’s fees which had been their “profession” in the past. DUH??? Joe may not be truly guilty of that murder, but Joe is FAR FROM A SAINT….I had pretty well figured out that Patrick had me writing to these men so they could tell him what I said….but you know, they are just like Patrick, where they NEED TO BE. Even if Joe is indeed innocent of the murder charge, Joe is a BADDDDD MAN.

    I also had to laugh, through the years I corresponded with Joe, he did not belive in God he said, but the last few years his letters have become filled with “I’m praying for you” LOL Just like Patrick does with my mother.

    So I too have been “guilty” of this Hybristophilia just like Margaret (the little old lady) but maybe for not the same reasons that girl is “engaged to” Charlie manson…mine was from my fall back position of “rescuing” the underdog. Of giving aid to the down fallen…including my son and his psychopathic cellies.

    So I think there are many “reasons” men and women get caught up in this–doon’t know if you remember that guy “Dave” who posted on here a while (I deleted his stuff) who was active on the prison supporters web site, as the “lover” of a death row inmate female who had killed her children and the se-xual fantasies that he had of what they would do when she got out of prison and in the meantime, he would wait and “support” her…the entire Prison Talk web site (and it is HUGE) is all about people waiting for their significant other or someone they have been pen pals with, or their child, just like I was. And with 2.5 million men and women and children in prison there are lots of people out there who are on that site trying to hang in there for their prisoner….but there are a significant number who have MWI (met while incarcerated) via a pen pal arrangement and have “bonded” and some of those prisoners are on death row or are doing Life Without Parole LWOP.

    The people on that site encourage each other to “hang tough”—-in fact, this is the only site I have been able to find that in general discourages people from “supporting” violent offenders.

  8. I can understand why Margaret would feel the inmate she ‘know’ is respectful towards her. He probably is. He’s not unlike any child in school.

    At an early age, children learn who they can and cannot manipulate to get their way. They know how far they can push their limits, when to ask for things, how to go about getting what they want and who their easy targets are. Children also know how they are to behave when they are at home versus how they are to behave at school, church, daycare, the babysitters, grandma’s….

    Margaret’s inmate ‘friend’ knows what she will allow and what she won’t. The inmate is much like the child only he has had longer to perfect his skills.

  9. Yep, they can manipulate and many of them know how to “show respect” to get their own way. It is just brown nosing the boss sort of thing….and it can be old ladies, or teachers in addition to bosses. LOL

  10. Joyce & Phoenix, indeed, they can manipulate and they generally test the waters on EVERYONE to see just whom is going to be an easy con, and who’s got boundaries.

    One of the strictest boundaries that I have is with regard to s_exual innuendo – for me, it’s a sore point, but it’s also indicative of a disregard for others when someone makes glib remarks or innuendo. Certainly, innuendo isn’t the only red flag that I watch for, but it’s the one that rankles me the most, right now.

    Yes………….manipulations are so easy for them, and I am SO on my guard that it’s almost become a problem for me. LOL!!!

  11. Truthy, I don’t think it is really problematic I think it is CAUTION and we are not used to being cautious, so being “cautious” is unfamiliar to us so it feels like it is not “natural” and maybe for us it isn’t.

    A while back my son and I watched a wild rabbit graze…it’s ears were continually turning and the birds around us signaled “danger” approaching to the rabbit and he fled into a nearby bush. My son and I “froze” in place and the warnings from the birds stopped and the rabbit came back out of the brush and started to graze again…when we moved, he heard the warning and went back into safety again. It is natural for that rabbit to be cautious because he instinctively realizes that there IS DANGER in his world….so he is cautious and AWARE of his environment and at the FIRST sign of danger he takes ACTION to protect himself.

    A few years ago the husband of a neighbor started making the very SLIGHTEST innuendos and sexual jokes in my presence and touching me on the shoulder or “accidently” brushing up against me….and my RADAR went off that he was coming on to me…very subtly, but still…come to find out he was a serial cheater on his poor long suffering wife so my radar was RIGHT. I now avoid this man when I can and to not respond to any of his innuendos or “jokes.”

    I think it is important that we keep our RADAR on, and watch for any red flags trying to push up against our boundaries and that pull away from people who continually try to push them. We may not be able to completely get these people out of our lives….we may work with them or live near them…but we Gray Rock them at the very least. If they then continue to push hard enough, we may have to respond and go NC, Sometimes that means changing jobs, or some other “drastic” action on our part to avoid this person, but we have to take whatever action is necessary to protect ourselves.

    • Joyce, you’re spot-on, 100% – it’s “unfamiliar” territory for me because I was taught one thing, then expected to accept the 180 degree version as per the dysfunction. My belief – and, this is just my own belief – is that there are those people out there who DO have an understanding of danger and act accordingly. Whether it’s stranger-danger, or danger from a cult leader, they’ve “got it” where that’s concerned.

      I was raised to believe that STRANGERS were the ones to be feared – that men with candy would lure little girls into their cars and sew their eyelids shut. That’s what I was told, literally! No other details about what was done to the little girls, but the eyelids being sewn shut were enough for me to never go with an unknown. Now, for me, the REAL and PRESENT danger was within the walls of the home I was raised in. The dysfunction of alcoholism was the true danger, and I was taught to ignore it, excuse it, deny it, and keep it secret.

      So, what I’m learning, now, is precisely what you typed that we keep our radar on, at all times, and keep our boundaries high, strong, and remain vigilant in protecting those boundaries.

      Why a person is, or what a person is doesn’t have as much importance to me as what I need to do if I recognize the DANGERS, early enough. At one time, I honestly believed that I needed to know everything about toxic people – if I “knew” all about them, that knowledge would be protection enough. Well….oh, well…..that simply isn’t true! LMAO!!!! It’s what I need to “know” about Truthspeak that will protect my precious vulnerabilities better than anything else. 🙂

  12. Truthy, I guess that rabbit was born with a bit of caution in his genes because the ones who didn’t have that cautious nature would be eaten…probably by my barn cat! LOL But you know, we have that caution TRAINED OUT OF US by being taught things that are not true.

    We are taught that “stranger danger” thing while the real danger in our cases came from WITHIN THE FAMILY and we were taught that we had to endure the abuse dealt out by “family” (or in my case also close friends) and that my job was to keep everyone else happy.

    Sigh! It took a long time for this old rabbit to realize she needed to listen to her gut, listen to her environment and scoot away at the first sign of danger, NOT when the cat was close enough to pounce. Keeping a distance between us and people who wave red flags is the key to staying out of trouble. BE PREPARED is the Boy Scout Motto, and I think it is a good one. It’s like keeping a fire extinguisher in your house….you may never need it, but if you need it and don’t have it, your house may burn down. So BE PREPARED, BE SAFE….

  13. I have never heard of this word, hybristophilia. Interesting. When the sociopath isn’t committing crimes, they can very easily act kind and respectful toward others. They don’t spend 24/7 on their crime sprees. Joyce, I loved the “time” that you spent in “Australia”, letting your son and his jail buddies know what you’re up to. Not being truthful with them is smart, wise on our part, a tactic that is helpful to us.

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