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Jared Fogle — 65 Comments

  1. We all have breaking points. We can only bend so much, so many times and so far. Getting pushed to those limits time and again, weakens a lot of things and sooner or later it will snap. It’s the laws of physics and just how it goes.

    But Zen honey, at least you know how far someone can push those boundaries and when they cross them, how you will react. I’ve come close to the breaking point. I don’t know exactly How I will react, but one thing I do know is that it takes a heIIuva lot and when I get there, it’s not going to be pretty.

    For all of the things the Spath did to me, the names he called me, the lies he told about me, the fights he tried to bait me into, the snooping, the attempts at control and everything else? I learned the best reaction was no reaction and the thing to do was to walk away. I might have shaken my head in disgust or disappointment, but that was the most he got from me for his efforts. He simply wasn’t and still isn’t worth anything else. Not my circus, not my monkey.

  2. Phoenix, you summed it up very well. thank you. In WWII the Nazis did an experiment to see just where the breaking point was for some mothers. They took young mothers and their infants or toddlers and put them in a room that had a metal floor and they heated the metal floor, for a long time those mothers held those babies up off the floor but eventually 100% of the women eventually stood on their children’s bodies to escape the red-hot floor.

    I know that is an extreme example of a breaking point, but EVERYONE has one somewhere.

    Mine is usually a verbal breaking point where I will say something that I regret, but I am learning to control my verbal breaking points and like you say WALK AWAY and stay away from that person.

    And you know, sometimes that “breaking point” is APPROPRIATE when you must defend yourself from an attack. So learning when (as the country song goes) to “know when to fold’em, know when to hold’em, know when to walk away” is a good part of our maturing as healthy adults.

    • While Fogle wasn’t making them, he was encouraging and paying this guy to make them, he should also have received the same sentence in my opinion, and ALL of Fogle’s assets should be forefit to his victims and/or organizations that help victims.

  3. And you know, Fogle’s wife was also a victim….her share of his and her assets should not be touched…I can’t even imagine how she must have felt (feels?) about such news about her husband. The public shame when someone you love behaves like Fogle did.

  4. I agree that Fogle should have received a harsher a punishment for his involvement. While he didn’t take the videos and/or photos, he Encouraged them being made and Paid for them.
    Where Taylor worked with authorities to bring down Fogle, Fogle did not offer or give any further cooperation with police to bring in anyone else. Possession and viewing the pornographic videos isn’t viewed as being “as bad” as taking them so I can understand Fogle’s less harsher punishment in that respect, but the encouragement and payment for the pornograhy should count for something and brought about a bit more ‘substance’ in his sentence IMO. Maybe give him another 5 years or so for that?

    I aso agree that his wife should be allowed to hold onto her share of the family assets, BUT only as long as she had NO involvement in what her husband did.That’s something we have not heard anything about, if she was involved, knew or helped him cover it up…. Although 5 years of investigation is more that plenty of time to have determined IF she was involved and if so, how much? To date it seems she had NO involvement and there are no charges aganst her that I am aware of.

    As for the possibility of feeling shame for what he’s done, while yes it is and has been VERY publicized what he did, his actions are NOT hers to own. She may or may not feel guilty or shameful for what HE did. While my own case was not nearly as public as theirs, (not even close!), there are still LOT of people in our community who KNOW what the spath did. She has the opportunity that I did, (only on a much larger scale) to make a public statement that she is NOT in suppot of HIM or what HE has done. Their ACTIONS, GUILT and SHAME are NOT OURS to own. I hope she can see this and it helps her deal with things in the aftermath that has and will follow.

  5. Phoenix, I totally agree with you about the shame NOT being hers to own, but just as I felt shame at what Patrick had done, it wouldn’t surprise me to know that she feels shamed to have lived with such a monster. Of course there will always be those who blame the VICTIM for not knowing…”she should have known, etc”…any time your loved one (parent, child, spouse) is a monster and it makes the front page of national news it is definitely hard on the family members.

    Of course some spouses stick by their monster, like Bill Cosby’s wife, Jerry Sandusky’s wife, and a few others I can think of, where others distance themselves from the monster.

    Families have strange ways of reacting to the family bad boys (or girls) the oddest one I think is the lady whose son killed her 4 year old daughter to spite her, and yet she has “unconditional love” for him and visits him in prison etc. even though she KNOWS he is a psychopath and when he gets out of prison will be a danger to her and to her subsequently born child. DUH? People amaze me.

    • Joyce, you hit the nail on the proverbial head, right there. I felt TREMENDOUS shame about what Chuckie turned out to be. Omigawd, I took on my shoulders HIS deviance and sins – I made HIS shame my own. And, this was a personal pathology that counseling therapy helped me to overcome – I don’t believe that there would have been any other means to recover and being healing from that. When I discovered his frauds, I was just ready to step in front of a bus. I would think about his vile interests and the fact that I had slept next to him for all of those years, and it actually caused my gorge to rise.

      Perhaps, that’s why Sandspathsky’s wife claimed to be ignorant of his activities. She just couldn’t bear the shame of what her husband had done………who knows?


  6. For a long time I sort of stuck by the spath. I tried to clean the house, the yard, worked my arse off to do things to make it appear like life at our house was ‘normal’. Truth be told a lot of people already knew it was anything but!

    Then one night my dear friend told me to stop. Knock it off. IT’S NOT YOURS TO OWN! You will not have to atone for his sins. By any luck you won’t be there when he stands before his maker. It was like a light had been switched off in my head. After we hung up the phone that night, I did something amazing.

    I let it all go. It was like a weight had been lifted off of me, the chains were gone and I was free. I had spent so much time and energy running Defense for him… The look on his face was priceless when he realized I wasn’t anymore. I stopped.

    It’s easy to see where and how spouses and family get sucked into the vortex of their bulleshit. They repeat it so often to themselves and anyone that will listen, until it becomes gospel. I’m glad I’m so done with that.

  7. Phoenix, getting rid of the shame complex is easier for some folks than for others. I think it depends both on the person themselves AND on the culture they were reared in. The Japanese concept of “face” and losing “face” and the Muslim of “honor killing” if a female member of the family is not 100% “pure” or if she marries against the family’s wishes, etc. it is the “honorable thing”to kill her. In Britain right now 30% of the UK born Muslim males think Honor Killing is a good thing. It still goes on there though I have not heard of it happening here in the US. *(yet)

    My own family was more concerned with “what would the neighbors think” than any actual bad acts. Looking back I can remember my family belitting and gossiping about neighbors beating their wives, going bankrupt, losing a jjob, an out of wedlock birth and on and on and on. WE were “superior” to those people….unless of course someone found out about our dirt which we carefully kept hidden.

    My mother divorced my biological father when i was 3 months old for him being in the Army Base Hospital with an STD…and everyone around here where my grandparents lived knew she had divorced him, but when she remarried and we moved to another town I was at age 6 told to NOT SAY ANYTHING about it. It was a SECRET.

    If something was a “secret” it was a “shame” if anyone found out…not what WAS true but what was KNOWN was what was important to keeping up the family”s “superior” reputation. I’m not sure that anyone except us thought that we were “superior” LOL

  8. Joyce I totally get what you’re saying. Believe me, I had a lot of people tell me the same thing a lot of different ways. Some spoke kindly not wanting to hurt my feelings. Others were blunt as could be and still others were brutally honest. Thru all of it, it was the same message coming thru. None of this was my fault, none of this was my doing and none of this was my responsibility to hide, cover up or clean up after him for. It was all said different ways on different ways, but none of it got thru to me. At least not until it was put to me this way and I was ‘ready’ to actually HEAR IT.

    Until then I heard it, but I wasn’t truly ‘listening’. When I was ready to Hear it and more importantly ACCEPT it, only then did it CLICK! Only then did it make sense. Call it an A-HA! moment, TRIGGER or call it what you will, but that’s when things fit together and made sense to me.

  9. Phoenix, I think that “ah ha” moment when we start to HEAR and ACCEPT what is our “fault” and what is NOT our “fault” and that we should bear no SHAME about someone else’s behavior we can start to heal. However, as long as we stay in the mode where we feel shame about it, we are not going to truly be able to heal.

    ACCEPTANCE of what IS and not shame over not having what we want but have no control over is a big turning point. ENABLERS (and boy was I ever an enabler!) hold on to this FALSE BELIEF that we can “change” someone else’s behavior when there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD we can do that. I literally kept wishing I could bore a hole in Patrick’s skull and “pour in” some wisdom so that he would not end up with a criminal record. I turned him in for theft when he was 17 (almost 18) because I knew that he would have a SEALED juvenile record and would get a slap on the wrist, but HOPING that a few days in jail would change his attitude.

    Of course it didn’t change his attitude at all, it only made him hate me more for “betraying” the UNCONDITIONAL “loyalty” that he expected me to have, no matter what he did. He played me for a sucker for 20+ years and I fell for it. But ACCEPTING that he is a monster, a psychopath, a stone cold killer, finally woke me up in my AH HA moment and made me realize I could NOT stay in DENIAL any longer. since then I’ve started to heal and continue to work on my own attitude on a daily basis.

    It hasn’t been an easy task to let go of the desire and fantasy had for my son’s life…HE decided what he wanted to be, decided to act as he did. I have ACCEPTED I have no control over anyone else’s behavior and I won’t stress about it any more.

  10. Oh, and one more thing…back when I was working pro bono with women and children from the domestic violence shelter I was AMAZED at how many of them went back to the man who had broken their noses and their arms and I was so FRUSTRATED that they would do that in spite of all the counseling etc that they got…I just didn’t see how they could be so “stoopid” to do that, but at the same time I was frustrated with THEM I was doing exactly the same thing with Patrick…going back…being conned etc. My out-sight was pretty good but my IN-SIGHT was NOT good at all. Now I realize where those women were coming from, they were not yet ready to HEAR what was being taught to them. They DISCOUNTED the truth and fell for the lies. Been there and dun that myself.

    • Joyce, I forget where I heard this (or, read it), but the average number of times it takes before an abuse victim makes the decision to NOT return is six. I also learned from one of my professors that this was the “magic number of times” that a student (or, anyone else) had to hear the same information before it became a part of their memory.

      So, I “get it” about the women that return to their abusers. The abusers are “so, so sorry” for what they did, and they promise that it will never, EVER happen, again. After being told that they’re useless, ugly, unwanted, unworthy of love, and all of the rest of the bullcarp, they return to the person that takes the pain away (relatively speaking) even if it’s for only a few days. It goes back to one of the perceptions of Stockholm Syndrome: (bold, italic, underlined) the ABSENCE OF ABUSE is perceived as a KINDNESS. I get that. I lived that with Victor, day in and day out.

      Some people never get it, and I feel such deep pity for them because they are just so far down into that cesspool that they’re drowning. Some of them actually want to drown. They would rather die at the hands of their partner than admit that the relationship isn’t “perfect.” It’s all very sad.

  11. Zen, I think of the many many women I treated at the clinic, and their sick kids because somehow they always seemed to have one or two kids with a raging ear infection or sinus infection…I got the drug reps to give me antibiotic samples to give to the kids and mothers. It broke my heart when they went back. I think 6 is the number of times I read as well.

    And you are right, some people never get it…and it isn’t JUST MEN who abuse their spouses, I can think of a lovely man who is married to a manipulative, hateful wife who he cannot appease. It is PEOPLE who abuse PEOPLE not just men abusing women.

    Stockholm syndrome is REAL and people who are trauma bonded to a monster will help him/her commit crimes. Look at Patty Hearst robbing a bank. I am conflicted about how these trauma bonded “criminals” should be handled in our legal system. How can we tell the trauma bonded person who commits a crime with a psychopath from another psychopath who has hooked up with a psychopath and they are both abusers?

    The women married to the men who kidnapped Jayce Dugard and Elizabeth Smart—were they simply trauma bonded to these men or were they also psychopaths? What they participated in was UNCONSCIONABLE and yet….I wonder.

  12. Zen- The idea that “Some of them would rather die at the hands of their partner, than admit the relationshit isn’t “perfect.”, while it is a strange concept to some, to others it makes perfect sense. We aren’t ready to see, hear or accept the truth of the reality or the scope of the situation. Some of these people may actually wish to die at the hands of their partner, because at least then, the abuse would finally end. Death would bring them freedom and they would be released of the guilt, shame, despair and everything else in being associated with their abuser. To some of us, this is a twisted way of thinking, but sadly it is and has become their reality. I pray for them.

    • You know I don’t think the consciously want to “die” but you are right about them not wanting to admit that their marriage/relationship is not okay. They hang on to the denial that things will get better THIS time he won’t be that way any more…ya da, ya da….I stayed in denial 99% of the time for two decades where Patrick was concerned and I also stayed in denial about many of my “friends”–I had surrounded myself with users and abusers and I was a “sucker” for a sob story…typical “rescuer” and you know, life is different NOW because I quit pretending everything was “okay” or would “get better” if I was just nice enough to the people who used and abused me.

      As long as we deny that there’s a BIG problem we can’t fix anything…and ultimately in the end we can only fix ourselves.

  13. There have been reports on the news recently that Jared was handed a beat down in jail. Apparently one or some of the other inmates is not happy about the number of pedophiles in that particular prison.

    Honestly I didn’t catch the whole story so I don’t know the particulars, but the way the media is, it is sure to be brought to light before long. If you look, this was post qas put up at the beginning of November, he has been incarcerated less than 6 months and already gotten beat up. He has several years to go still and I imagine this won’t be the last we hear of this.

  14. yea, I saw that, some 60 year old robber beat him up pretty good, with his “fame” he may get to spend his time in solitary if he doesn’t want fairly frequent beat downs.. No m,atter how horrible the crimes the other inmates have done they seem to look down on kiddie rapers. Patrick told me once that a perv in his prison had “perv” tatt’d on his forehead. I don’t douibt it. the only reason this beat down made the news ios because of Fogel’s fame.

    I guess that people like the robber who is doing life now and has spent most of his life in the pen has to have some one “below” him.

    I have to laugh at the self image some convicts seem to have…Patrick actually thinks he is a “success” which doesn’t make logical sense to anyone but himself. Where we see a man who has spent his entire adult life in prison as a failure…he wasn’t even a good enough criminal not to get caught multiple times, he sees himself as a success for putting one over on the guards from time to time, but even then he has frequently been caught and sent to solitary.

    (head shaking hjere)

    • I completely passed over the part about the self image and Patrick thinking himself as a “success”. Whoops.

      In a way they are a successful person. They “won”, its just a matter of perspective. Its the Who, What, How and our perception or idea of what success is.

  15. I hadn’t caught all of the particulars, just that he got his arse whooped but good. They mentioned it on the morning news and I had to leave before getting the whole story.

    I have heard that about prison Joyce. You can beat your wife, kill the dog and rape someone’s sister, but don’t you dare mess with the kids. Children and the elderly are hands off. The elderly because it is someone’s beloved mother, grandmother or respected father, grandfather, etc. If the spath ever winds up inside those walls, I can only say it would be a relief. Both on my part and that of his parents. Sure they would worry over him, but he would be supporting himself for a change only with the ‘help’ of the state.

  16. I watched a documentary the other day about how Colorado puts most of its sex offenders in one particular prison, but there are others there who are also violent and the sex offenders must keep their crimes secret or face abuse from other inmates, especially child molesters.

    With Fogles’ “fame” and all the other inmates knowing what a scum bag he is, I suspect that he will always be at risk just as Jeffrey Dahlmer was and will always be in danger of a beat down. He may end up either dead or severely injured, or he may have to be placed in segregation from the general; population of prisoners for hhis own safety which is not a happy place to be. The people who are likely to beat him down don’t have much to lose because most of them will be doing Life without parole anyway. They may spend 30 days in the “hole” but that kind of inmate doesn’t dread it much.

    • Boy, what a month it’s been…………

      Fogle’s beat-down made it to the headline news, eventually. And………I don’t know why the media feels that the public needs to know about it OTHER than it being a clear message to other kiddie rapers that prison retribution is much, much worse than any legal retribution imaginable.

      Put them all on an island in the middle of the Pacific. Give them each some seeds, a couple of livestock, and let them eke it out amongst one another. I have no worries that they’ll “ESCAPE” because, once they do, they’ll be caught, again, and then they can pay the ultimate price for their heinous crimes.

      The French used to place inmates on “Devil’s Island,” and I often wondered at what a terrible punishment that had to have been. Now, it doesn’t seem so horrible, at all.

      • Well, punishment for crime has been much worse historically than it is now in the western cultures at least. The British transported “criminals” (usually poor people who might have stolen a loaf of bread or a handkerchief to AU, where they lived in horrible brutal conditions under the directions of psychopathic jailers (“Fatal Shore” is an excellently researched history of this) Devil’s Island was pretty bad too. And always the stronger criminals prey on the weaker, just as they do on the streets.

        Yea Fogle and all the other pedophiles have it pretty bad in prison here, and I don’t frankly have much empathy for them. Many are also psychopaths as well.

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