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Jesus’s advice on dealing with offenders — 10 Comments

  1. Well it looks like they had the “three strikes” rule even back when, long before baseball came around… lol

    Strike one was between you and the offender,
    Strike two, between you, witnesses and the offender and
    Strike three, between you, the witnesses, the community and the offender.

    What held true then, still holds true even today. Some things never change.

  2. I agree Phoenix, and you know the Bible is chocked full of GOOD ADVICE on how to live a good and happy life. Some people take verses out of context like “turn the other cheek” and try to make it mean that you must let people continue to abuse you, but that’s not what it means at all…the advice must be looked at as a WHOLE and not as a snippet here or there.

    There are many examples of psychopaths and other offenders in the Bible We can find all kinds of good advice there. Even if someone is not a “believer” there is good stuff there for how to handle the offenders in our lives.

    Yeppers, THREE STRIKES…and of course the object of those strikes are to give the person a chance to straighten up and fly right, but if they refuse, then NC is the name of the game. Some churches still do this, but most don’t set any standards for being a member.

  3. I feel that the advice quoted is sound and reasonable. There are opportunities given to the offender to either prove their defense, or admit their guilt and wipe the slate clean. Walking away from someone (ANYone) that violates basic human decency isn’t a crime or a sin, even if the person is one’s own offspring.

    It doesn’t matter whom it is – husband, offspring, parent, coworker, etc. – people who “do wrong” and continue to “do wrong” against others EVEN after they’ve “apologized” really aren’t interested in how their choices and decisions might impact other people.

    I’m all for “shunning.” It’s the formal term for “No Contact.” And, no…..it’s not an “easy” decision to make. But, in the end, it puts a stop to the manipulations and games.

  4. When I was a kid, Truthy, if the community knew someone was ‘sinning” be it drinking, adultery etc AND sat in church every Sunday the church would confront them, usually a friend first, and so on, they would be cast out of the church. the UN-churched were not attacked by the church but they were somewhat “shunned” by the law abiding folks who would not allow their sons and daughters to associate CLOSELY with anyone from that family except in a business context. The same with serious mental illness, they were given pity but you would not allow your daughter or son to date anyone from that family. They somehow knew a lot of mental illness was genetic.

    “Evil companions corrupt good morals” is another bit of advice from Proverbs which is filled with good advice from a man to his son…don’t be lazy, don’t be a drunk, don’t go awhoring and so on…

    Now days a person who has a mistress, or is a crooked businessman, or a thug can sit peacefully in a pew and everyone slaps them on the back.

    Only a few rare churches will sanction their members who violate good morals and have no shame about it. Seems the more money they have to put in the plate also influences these churches.

  5. Joyce, I “get this” concept and it’s sensible to me. What I don’t get is how we went from a society that maintains reasonable expectations to an “anything goes” culture. Some things are none of my business – a person’s sexual orientation, and other very personal issues. But, it seems that everyone has a handy-dandy excuse, now.

    We have so many labels that it’s simply a Pick And Choose Your Excuse atmosphere! The gal with the “son issues” insists – vehemently so – that her son was “just doing what ALL kids his age do,” and I do not agree with that. Offspring that TRULY care about a parent wouldn’t move out and leave a parent destitute and desperate – an offspring that truly cared about that parent would put their plans on “hold” until things sort of straightened out, if for no other reason than to demonstrate their appreciation TO that parent for everything that they had been provided with. Not so, in this instance.

    So, instead of recognizing something that is 100% toxic to us (not necessarily EVIL) and putting distance between the toxicity and ourselves, we TOLERATE bad behavior and choose a label to excuse it! I do not buy this approach, at all. Years and years ago, I would have been diagnosed as ADHD and, possibly, oppositional-defiance (during puberty), and drugged to the eyeballs. But, there were no such labels, then. I had to figure it out – I had to teach myself how to retain information, follow instructions, and FOCUS. I also had a lot of guilt to deal with for what I put my parents through after my mother got sober…..

    So, is it the “labels” or excuses that have almost created a social, moral, and ethical collapse in our current society? And, by using the words, “moral,” and “ethical,” I’m not referring to anything other than reasonable expectations.

    STRICT ASIDE: Sandspathsky’s appeal was denied. BIG surprise, there!!!

  6. Truthy, I too feel that our society has become “too permissive” and too “anything goes.” Many of our youth are more concerned with being trend setters and partying until the cows come home and have little or not work ethic, or filled with rage and envy of others. Our “leaders” in many cases are immoral, cheating on their wives, and like Sandusky worse than “immoral” are truly predatory but because of status ( or sports) and money being at stake it is covered up by the “good old boy” network.

    Morals are no longer taught in schools…I don’t think all these problems are caused by drugs, I think the drug and alcohol problems are the SYMPTOM rather than the cause of the rot. BUT all that aside, there ARE good people in this world, caring empathetic, altruistic folks and I think just because we’ve come up against some of the rotten ones, we need to not forget about those good people who work hard, love their neighbors and their children and model good behavior and morals for their kids.

    Yea I saw where sandusky had appealed and that it was denied. I can’t believe that scumbag thinks he cold get out of prison for what he did, but people like him NEVER GIVE UP….he might as well sit down and relax, because he will be there till his dying breath or very close to it.

    • Joyce, I love history – especially, ancient history. The Greek and Roman Empires were amazing in their progression, art, and sciences. But, they also doomed themselves as their power and territories grew. I see those patterns repeated by just about EVERY “great” empire or power: corruption follows. It’s inevitable.

      What I see, today, is a repetition of the pre-collapse dynamics of every former empire and power, in history. First, it’s industry and progression that fuels an economy. Then, it’s a matter of becoming over-extended. Then, it becomes a matter of ethical and moral decay. Then, it becomes a matter of time before a new power rises to take the faltering one out of the picture.

      Opulence and affluence has become the Great Goal of every individual – MUST have that $400 handbag, or pair of shoes. MUST have a vehicle for everyone in the family. MUST have the 56″ flat-screen television. MUST have, must have, must have….

      Eugh…

  7. Truthy, years and years ago there was a book about the down fall of the Roman Empire called “We who are about to die salute you” and it wasn’t just about the games, but about the Roman ECONOMY which ours mirrors, even 30+ years ago when this book was written.

    The Romans were spending most of the GNP on entertainment for the elite, and the entertainment became more and more violent and out of control, sexual moral break down was rampant, the workers who were not slaves were demanding subsidies for their work, and the subsidies were so large they took the subsidies and then did NOT work (i.e. welfare for the able bodied) The leaders were immoral even by the standards of the day (like Nero) and it was “bread and circuses” and I look around me now and I SEE what was going on there, the “welfare” that there is no way this country can pay…we are forced to buy insurance and if you can’t afford it, the government will reimburse you. WHERE is the money for that coming from? I won’t go into more politics

    Few kids any more live with both parents, and the huge majority of teen pregnancies are unwed…yea, I’m sounding like an “old foggie” as we say down here in the south.

    It is the perfect playground for the offenders of many kinds…from the crooked politicians to the pedophiles who prey on children to the person with HIV who goes around knowingly spreading it. And we buy our 50 inch TVs from China because there are NONE manufactured in the US any more…just like Rome quit making shoes because they could buy them so cheap in Egypt. LOL

    • Joyce, it’s amazing how closely we’re following Ancient History – doomed to keep repeating the same thing over, and over, again.

      Referencing this article, I believe that man has misinterpreted a number of teachings to suit various needs. “Turning the other cheek” does not mean that a “good person” keeps tolerating and accepting use and/or abuse. It just doesn’t. If we set the “religion” aside and examine this particular teaching using common sense, what earthly good would tolerating and accepting use and/or abuse accomplish for the victim OR the perpetrator? If allowing people to walk all over us and use us until we are DRAINED emotionally, physically, financially, and spiritually were to provide some kind of SERVICE to humanity, that would be one thing. But, it doesn’t. It doesn’t teach anyone anyTHING except that people can be trod upon like doormats and that those with INTENT are “allowed” to perpetrate their sins and crimes, without consequences. Nobody learns anything by misinterpreting this basic teaching.

      “Turn the other cheek,” in my most HUMBLE opinion, means “No Contact.” Walk away from “bad people” without resentment or anger – just move along. And, as sad as this may be, it includes our own family members (including offspring). People who do not INTEND to harm are salvageable. Those who keep repeating the same behaviors, over and over and over, are TOXIC and not interested in altering their choices or behaviors.

      A person who is surrounded by and immersed in abuse, manipulations, drama/trauma, and mind-games cannot – can NOT – be of service to themselves OR to their community OR to God (Great Creator, Jehovah, Whomever). The drama/trauma of TOXIC relationships and business dealings overshadows even the most sincere and genuine human beings. For those of us who were raised in dysfunction, it’s lethal on every level. Even the most devout person is not immune to toxicity – however they do it, they don’t absorb the toxicity and allow it to permeate every aspect of their lives. They have some innate ability to repel that kind of evil and remain focused on their “calling.”

      Joyce, I appreciate your references to Biblical teachings with regard to healing and recovery – I really do. I’ve been trying to emerge from a serious spiritual crisis, and these articles are VERY helpful to me, personally.

  8. Truthy, I think most if not all victims of abuse of any form end up in a spiritual crisis before it is over, that is why the LEARNING ABOUT OURSELVES is part of the healing process.

    during my time in hiding when I was at my lowest ebb I read and re-read the Bible, and darned if I didn’t see old stories in a NEW LIGHT…for example the one of Joseph and forgiving his brothers, but NOT associating with them until he had TESTED them. Here I was 60 years old and had heard that story my entire life, read it dozens of times, and yet I had MISSED THE WHOLE POINT and frankly I don’t know anyone else that saw that story the way I did and do now. But now it makes perfect sense to me about why Joseph was so :”mean to his brothers, he was TESTING them.

    I finally learned to read the Bible for myself and not take someone else’s words for what those teachings mean. It freed me from the religious carp and twisting my mother did for me when I was little (and later too) and allowed me to become a SPIRITUAL Christian not a legalistic one.

    I had to find out what **I** believed, not what someone else told me to believe. I no longer fear an Angry God that is out to get me, but have a relationship with a loving father God who cares for me.

    But you are right, even if one does not believe in any god, the Bible is a great book of psychological and social advice.

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