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Stalking — 24 Comments

  1. Joyce, phenomenal article and very, very timely. Some stalkers become physically violent and murderous, and “hoping” that they won’t is not going to make them stop or keep a victim of stalking “safe.”

    From my own experiences, I lived in a state of constant fear and anxiety – the anxiety became so profound that I didn’t sleep, I could barely function, and I began to experience symptoms of PTSD. My level of depression increased, and I felt utterly helpless. It didn’t help that I was living in an isolated situation, and that Law Enforcement wasn’t very compassionate about it. Even when my vehicle had been tampered with, I was expected to ride it out until the stalker got bored and moved on to a new victim.

    Absolutely, people who engage in stalking are WAY messed up. The obsession might not even be of a romantic nature, as in my own case. But, it is vital to call it what it is, recognize and accept that it could escalate into murder, and take every action to protect yourself.

    Stalkers cannot be reasoned with. They do not live in a Universe of consequences or accountability, or they wouldn’t be stalking people in the first place. Take every legal action and report every attempt at contact, bar none. EVERY contact – whether it’s electronic, physical, or simply parking outside of the workplace. And, report the contact to Law Enforcement – do not let yourself believe that this is something that you can handle, alone. Stalkers are bat-sh*t crazy.

  2. Truthy, in my case I couldn’t get law enforcement to really believe me…they ran his rap sheet which was terrible (pedophile) and even when I went to court the judge didn’t really believe what I was saying, he did order the man out of my mother’s house, but he came back in a couple of weeks, and so that was when I decided to flee.

    It did drive me “bat sh*t crazy” and I spent six months in a complete melt down physically and emotionally. But I survived, and he was eventually arrested since he went to Plan B when he couldn’t find me. I melted down last year when I was working on Patrick’s parole protest…just the thought of him maybe getting out tipped me over the edge for a few months. I felt like there was a lion out there in the dark some place and I couldn’t see it, but I could “hear” it.

    I feel safer now, though I guess in actual fact, Patrick could send another person to get me, and I wouldn’t know them if I saw them, so I take precautions, but I don’t live in abject terror again.

    One of his friends who is a psychopath gets back out of prison this year or next, and I wouldn’t put it past him to come after me but I DO know him on sight. If he were to come he would have jumped parole so I would know his intentions…he is on life time parole. He got out once (that was when I met him) but was only out for a couple of years before he got bored with real life and went back to crime. Drunken crime so they got caught the first shot out of the box, and back he went. One of the letters Patrick wrote to Hamilton talked about him going back and told Hamilton to make sure I didn’t get the information that he was back inside.

    The man’s ex wife was being hounded once when they thought he might be getting out a few years ago to take him back…the man’s mother called her and screamed at her that she HAD to take him back. The ex wife fled to another state to live with her sister and I lost contact with her, but bless her heart, she was so poor she couldn’t feed her little dog and I took the dog to take care of it.

    I think about that woman and I hope she is safe. She has a first ex husband who is a psychopath, and two sons by him who are also psychopaths, and then the criminal psychopath second husband. She is the “perfect victim,” having grown up in an abusive family, and then produced her own family of psychopaths, then jumped from the frying pan into the fire again with her last husband. Unfortunately, her name is “legion” and she is not a rare bird, but one that is found in every level of society.

    I think though by the time she fled that she was getting it that NO CONTACT was the way to go with these people. I hope she stuck it out.

    While stalkers “look normal” in most cases, their thinking is perverted, and if someone is a stalker then they can definitely be dangerous. They can stalk individuals, or they can stalk groups that they hate like the Uni-bomber did. They can stalk those they know or think they know, or a series of individuals. Some stalkers are frankly mentally ill, such as the Uni-bomber, or they can just be mean and violent like the “happy face” killer, or the Green River killer who stalked and killed prostitutes. Skylar once years ago was hitchhiking and was picked up by him, but when he found out she wasn’t a hooker, he didn’t kill her. Dr. Liane Leedom when she was about 15 was stalked by a neighbor of hers who was a serial rapist and killer.

    Many men and women have been stalked by their ex wives or husbands. A friend of mine out west is still, after a decade, being contacted by her ex husband, and their son is still being contacted by his father though he has told him repeatedly “don’t call me.”

    The guy I dated after my husband died stalked his previous girl friend and actually burned her house. When I kicked him to the curb, I told him I knew he had burned her house (but there was no legal “proof”) and that he better not “mess with me” or my sons would come after him. Only one time did he show up at an auction I used to attend just about every saturday night. It was 200 miles from his home so I know he wasn’t just “passing by” and he spoke to me, but I didn’t respond, and then he sat right in front of me though there were many other seats available. He didn’t like being kicked to the curb by former girl friends or even his ex wife, he wanted to keep them all as “friends with benefits” after the break up. He literally had a “harem” of these women, and the GF whose house he burned had refused to go along with that, and I also wasn’t interested in being “friends” with him after I figured out what he was (a psychopath).

    I never saw him again or heard from him again and he didn’t burn my house. He knew how protective of me my two sons were and he was at heart a total sneak and coward. The woman whose house he burned nearly 10 years ago is still bitter about it, and I understand that bitterness, but I hope and pray she can let it go.

  3. Joyce,
    There are few topics more important to teach about than stalking, thanks for bringing up the subject. Primarily, we need to teach young people to recognize what stalking is.

    Not only did my ex-spath stalk me before we ever met, but he stalked me every time I left him so that he could get me to come back. But I never realized that’s what it was. I was very young when I met him and the fact that he wouldn’t let me go, seemed like “love” to me.

    It’s important to realize that controlling behavior is just the tip of the iceberg for many dangerous personality disorders. And since we cannot fathom how far someone will go when they want to control us, it’s best to steer clear of anyone who exhibits controlling behavior.

    In addition to teaching young people how to recognize stalking (and other red flags) we should teach law enforcement and prosecutors. Just like in your situation, when the judge wouldn’t believe you until after the attempted murder, I wonder what would have happened if I reported the ex-spath, at any time in my life, as a stalker. I’m sure they would have asked me if he had ever hit me. My answer would have been “no”. And that would have been enough for the judge to deny a restraining order, even though this spath is more dangerous than any other abuser that I’ve had the misfortune to meet — including the green river murderer. At least the green river murderer restricts his victim pool to one type, my ex-spath doesn’t really care who he kills.

    • Sky, 100% spot-on. “Stalking” isn’t something to joke about, and too many people tend to actually do just that: they make off-color jokes about it.

      When a person is being stalked, every aspect of their lives is tainted with fear and uncertainty. Also, the expectation of “something happening” ramps up the anxiety to an intolerable level. There’s nothing comical, humorous, or entertaining about being stalked.

      When Law Enforcement disdains the victims, it only perpetuates the stigma and fuels the stalkers’ audacity. I’ve known a couple of people, personally, who were either seriously injured or murdered by stalkers. I wish that “educating” Law Enforcement and members of the Legal System would make a difference – I truly, truly do.

      • Sky, I meant to add that I agree, 100%, that ANY controlling behavior is an indication of what the future holds. Constant text messaging or cell phone calls, driving by workplaces or apartments, and showing up *UN-ANNOUNCED* to events are very clear indicators as to how this person is going to behave, in the future. It never gets better. It only worsens and intensifies.

  4. Yea, Sky, you are right in saying that you “equated him following you” as “love”—too many people do the same thing when it is a former partner that is stalking them, but then others are terrorized by their stalkers. At least you got out ALIVE from his grasp, and now get only an e mail every now and then, but it does I am sure give you a weird feeling to even get that.

    After Hamilton got out of prison he called my mother to try to borrow some money. LOL Of course he didn’t get any…and actually I’m not afraid of him any more because he knows that we are A) prepared and B) VERY prepared. I do keep an eye out on him and where he is living as he is a registered sex offender and you can track their residences on line. He has moved back to Texas and resides at his elderly father’s house in Texas. Never hurts to know where he is living but I really don’t fear him any more, he’s the sneaky type, but he is also cowardly.

    As for the other “friends” of Patrick’s that I know their names I keep an eye out on the prison web sites to see when their release dates are…and that one guy who writes me I send him dis-information because I am sure he is sending my letters to Patrick which is patrick’s way of stalking me since he can’t get information from my mother about me. “Joe,” “bobby” and Hamilton are the only ones of his friends I know about that may ever be dangerous to me, and Hamilton I think is null and void. It is just important to be AWARE of your dangers, just like a rabbit hopping through the meadow…keep your eyes and ears tuned to find the fox.

  5. Hahahah! I forgot that I actually DID tell the Sheriff that my ex was dangerous. His response was, “Well, if you’re so afraid of him, then why don’t you leave?”

    First of all I never said that I was afraid of him. I have a hard time feeling fear of dangerous people because I trauma bond. I was only reporting him because I know that he is dangerous to OTHER people. Turned out that he was dangerous to the Sheriff because when I gave the Sheriff a recording of spath saying he was going to “teach the cops a lesson”, the Sheriff never responded to me. It makes me think that Spath had Sheriff blackmailed.

    The problem is not that cops don’t understand abusers, the problem is that cops ARE abusers.

  6. I don’t know if any of you have seen this new show called “stalkers” on television, it is pretty good I think, and it does high light the DANGER from stalkers…from ones we know to ones we don’t know. There was a case here in Arkansas recently where a window peeper that was seen in the neighborhood was apparently the one who killed a woman in her home. I’m not sure if he knew her or not, and I don’t think there has been an arrest yet. Since the witness that saw the peeper didn’t get an identifiable look at his face, there may not be an arrest, but we can hope he left DNA at least.

    My experience has been that people in the community don’t really understand what a “stalker” is.

    • Joyce, I agree that most people don’t know what “stalkers” truly do. And, most people who have never experienced it tend to laugh it off and simply assume that it’s some sort of “romantic” attachment or expression of unrequited love. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

      Omigosh, in MY case, it was just some vicious and totally disordered nutbag that focused his anger on me. And, to tell someone outside of the experience about it was just a terrible chore. Even the counselor that I began to see during that time was dismissive of me. So………yeah………..

  7. Truthy, I am so sorry that your therapist dismissed your fears. THAT HURTS! and also makes us wonder if this “professional” doesn’t think our feelings and fears have any basis, then are we crazy?

    Therapists are like any profession though 50% of them finish in the bottom of their class. There’s an old joke about “what do you call a doctor who finished LAST in his class?” The answer of course is “doctor.” (sigh) and therapists are the same way, some are “good” and some not so good.

    The anxiety and fears produced by stalking can grow like a mushroom…because we feel UN-safe. We startle when we hear a noise that we wouldn’t even notice until the stalking started.

    In my own case, I tried to convince my mother and my oldest biological son that Hamilton was a STALKER and no one would believe me. I KNEW what I knew, but eventually had to “give up on” trying to “save” them from him and fled my home. Fortunately, my adopted son stood by me and believed me. Finally when Hamilton tried to kill my oldest son he FINALLY BELIEVED ME. Fortunately by the grace of God my son didn’t die for his failure to believe me. He came pretty close though, and his PTSD was pretty bad as a result of it.

    My “story” was so outlandish my therapist wanted confirmation that I wasn’t a “nut case” and I provided him with plenty of evidence to show I was not “crazy” in that sense, just scared shiatless…and yea, “everyone in my family is trying to kill me” LOL

    Anytime a therapist or physician “poo poos” your fears without listening to you, you need to find another professional.

  8. With the start of the “School Year” having either begun for college students, already, or beginning in the next week or two for grade school students, new relationships are always in the wings. Whether these new relationships are strictly platonic, or romantic, this subject is an imperative to discuss with our young men and women, and I thought that I’d just touch back on it.

    What I have personally experienced in the forms of stalking escalated to life-threatening events. The individual who was responsible for tampering with my vehicle was not a romantic interest, under any circumstances. Instead, this person would have been a business partner if I had not paid attention to my gut instincts about his outrageous behaviors.

    One of the most difficult hurdles to overcome is to accept that what a person is doing is DELIBERATE and rooted in malice. People don’t stalk other people because they’re confused or sad. They engage in stalking behavior to terrorize a target. There is no reason or excuse good enough to explain this behavior in a court of Law. For instance, “I just love her SO much that I can’t stay away…” That is 100% nonsense. The person in question will certainly pay their auto insurance because, without it, they would possibly lose their license to drive AND their vehicle. So…….they are quite capable of making informed and deliberate decisions.

    Of course, there are always those people who are absolutely suffering from mental illnesses or conditions. But, without any court-ordered psychiatric evaluations, it’s impossible to determine whether or not someone is truly suffering a mental illness or disorder, OR if they are simply acting-out. For the intents and purposes of safety, security, and general well-being, we must treat ALL stalking behavior as a personal threat to our safety, and report it to authorities when ever it happens, and as often as it happens.

    “But, they don’t MEAN it…” Yes, they do. People who “love” another person will not go to great lengths to terrorize them and cause them to live in fear, lose their jobs, etc. Again, unless it’s a bona fide mental illness, it is behavior that could be legally defined as “depraved.” Without conscience or concern about any consequences.

    It will not “get better,” unless and until the stalker is compelled, by Law, to stop their behaviors. Even then, it’s not always successful. In many cases, the victims have had to make the decision to relocate.

    Young men and women, take note that it is not flattering for someone to stalk you. It is dangerous. It often ends in violence. Never pretend that it’s not happening, and never ignore what’s being done. This doesn’t mean that there must be interaction with the stalker – absolutely NOT. But, what it DOES mean is that filling formal charges is probably the only option that will start the wheels of justice to turn. And, it can often take some time to make a case against someone. But, without taking the first step to file a formal complaint, it will only escalate and cause the stalker to become bolder and less concerned about being caught.

  9. And I’d like to add one other thing, Truthy, to this IMPORTANT discussion….some people when you tell them you are being “stalked” will denigrate any danger you may be in, and “poo poo” you that you are “imagining” it. Sure been there and done that one and have the Tee shirt to boot!

    The fear and anxiety that is caused by a stalker knows no bounds. In some places the law is taking a better look at stalkers BEFORE they kill or maim someone, but not everywhere, unfortunately.

    • Joyce, that’s an excellent point because I experienced that, myself. From a counselor, AND from an abusive State Trooper that eventually was reprimanded for his treatment of victims in our County.

      Absolutely – it is JUST as “bad” as it appears to be when someone is being stalked. There is NO upside to it and the target isn’t “imagining” that it’s worse than it truly is. In nearly every case I’ve ever heard of where someone was being stalked, the events only got worse and more dangerous as time progressed and NOTHING WAS DONE. This happened to me and it finally stopped after I demanded an investigation.

      The only thing that I completely disagreed with having to do as per our Laws in my State was to send a letter, certified – return – receipt, to the stalker that was explicitly insisting that there would be NO contact via phone, physical encounters, electronic or technological means, or THIRD PARTY contact. This was, more or less, a legal requirement for me since the stalker had never laid a hand on me. I did this and his response was to tamper with my vehicle. THAT was the catalyst to filling the criminal complaint.

      YES…………acknowledge the fear and anxiety, but DO SOMETHING even when we’re shaking and crying from fear and frustration! We have the ability to do this – to “multi-task” through a situation, and this is a safety imperative.

  10. You are right, Truthy, some of the laws regarding things like “sending the letter” do not deter a stalker, and what if you don’t know WHO it is? DUH? What, are you going to leave a note for them and ask them to sign it and return it? LOL

    Of course many people have been killed or injured by their stalker even with a court order in hand. In arkansas the stalking laws are odd (to my thinking anyway) and there are 3 levels and the first two levels are only a slap on the wrist if they violate it, only the third is a felony. And it is difficult to get any level of protection.

    Dr. Patrick Carnes has written a great book about stalkers and so has Darin DeGavin, and the critical point in both of their writings is that you must not give the stalker satisfaction. In my case with Hamilton, I KNEW what was going on, but no way to prove it in a court so I did the only option open to me and that was to go into hiding. Of course when I did that and he couldn’t find me he went to “Plan B” stealing from my mother, as well as sleeping with my son Andrew’s wife, then trying to kill Andrew, but failed and went to jail and then prison for at least a short time. Not everyone has the option of going into hiding because they have children and/or jobs etc.

    • Joyce, your experiences are beyond my ability to comprehend because I didn’t ever go into hiding the way that you did. I cannot imagine having to consider that as an option.

      But, what you’re saying is something that should be nationwide in addressing. Stalking is serious business. People have been murdered and their lives altered beyond tolerance because the stalking Laws are so ambivalent.

      “Yeah, it’s too bad that this person is interfering with my business and personal life, but…….well……..tough it out, sister, and he’ll get bored and eventually stop.” That was almost verbatim what the abusive State Trooper said to me in the lobby! I could not believe my ears, seriously. That’s when the frustration kicked in and I started to cry from anger and frustration. He got SO much pleasure out of watching me cry that I stood up and got into his personal space and said, “I’m crying from FRUSTRATION, and no other reason.” LMAO!!!!!!!!!

      If someone isn’t murdered, outright, the consequences of long-term stalking is incalculable. The fear and anxiety that it creates will, eventually “murder” the target, and I do NOT understand why lawmakers are unable to accept that stalking is tantamount to attempted murder………….

      I clearly remember reading the posts of someone on another website that claimed that she had been stalked for a decade. But………she REFUSED to move. So, I don’t know what to think when people are terrorized and stay in the same place to be terrorized some more. I would read this person’s posts and consider this refusal to take proactive steps, and compare this reluctance to your doing whatever you HAD to do to keep yourself alive and safe, and I still (to this day) cannot understand the excuses and resistance to DO something to save herself.

      When I left where I was, I didn’t WANT to relocate to where I am, by any stretch of the imagination! But, my options were quite clear: here, or a homeless shelter. And, I didn’t “like” either option, but I chose the most practical one. Sometimes, none of the options are pleasant, but choosing the practical one for safety and security means giving up some things to find NEW things.

      When it comes to stalking, most of the options are NOT pleasant or comfortable, and targets must often take proactive steps (like relocating) because the Laws are so ambivalent and, often, useless. A piece of paper is NOT going to stop someone from going further, and this is the fact that we need to come to accept.


  11. You know truthy, I was scared out of my mind and not making great decisions at the time because of the spin cycle I was in from my husband’s death, my beloved step father’s death and the way the rest of the family was treating me…but I WORRIED about my house, I knew in my heart I better LEAVE ASAP but I was afraid of my house being burned. later, I realized that they wouldn’t have burned it for 2 reasons. 1) they wanted it and 2) they didn’t want me to have the insurance money. LOL

    I recall a story told by a woman in Canada who was a child in Nazi Germany before the worst part started happening. her father was a wise man and decided to GET OUT NOW. He talked to all his friends and relatives and their response was “but what would we do with the furniture?” She recalled seeing her mother trade her wedding ring for a ferry across a river, but they walked to Switzerland and eventually moved to Canada…ALIVE. While all the people worried about their furniture died in the ovens.

    That story struck a cord with me because I was so worried about the house. LOL Finally I realized it wouldn’t do me any good if I was dead. Of course no one but the sheriff believed I was being stalked and there wasn’t much he could do until I could PROVE the guy was doing it. So I took off, feeling like a traitor for leaving my poor defenseless mother in their clutches and was proven right when Hamilton and my DIL stole the money from her and tried to kill Andrew my oldest son. So you know…sometimes we just have to quit worrying about the “furniture” and just get out with the clothes on our backs and be thankful for the opportunity to do so.

    Of course some stalkers never pass over the threshold of murder but they can sure make your life a living hell and some of them DO turn to murder so we best be cautious about ANY stalker.

    • Well, Joycie, since I lost just about everything after I filed for divorce, it boiled down to stuff. I just lost stuff. Stuff can be replaced. People cannot.

      And, that’s the message: take ANY stalker seriously because there is no way to predict what they’ll do.

  12. http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/shooting-reported-in-mount-gretna/article_23cc4352-5584-11e5-a3cc-738706b5b632.html

    This is almost local news for me. And, it’s a testament to the fact that an abuser NEVER lets go, even if the Law is invoked and they’re facing real consequences for their actions.

    The whole story isn’t clear, but what is absolutely evident is that the shooter had NO intention of facing the consequences of his CHOSEN ACTIONS. And, he wasn’t going to go out, alone.

    Moral of the story? IF YOU ARE BEING STALKED or abused, do everything that you possibly can to protect yourself, and that includes relocating.

    Yes, yes, yes………why should the victim have to relocate? Why is it that the victim has to continue being punished by moving? Why, why, why? Because, it’s just the way it is. An abusive individual or stalker isn’t going to relocate, even if they are ordered to by the Court. Why should they? Rules and laws don’t apply to them, in THEIR world.

    SO, yes………feel the anger, feel the grief, feel ALL of the emotions that accompanies these situations, but process those emotions and take PRACTICAL ACTION. “Practical” doesn’t mean “happy,” or “pleasant,” or “comfortable.” In terms of personal safety, “practical” means to do whatever is necessary to create a safe and secure environment for ourselves, and our children (if any are involved).

    Do it. Don’t question it, or be fooled by the fantasy that a “bad” person is going to respond favorably to consequences. Oh, no…………just do it.

  13. Having had to make the decision myself and leave my home and go into hiding in order to escape my stalker, Kenneth Hamilton, once I found out he was a friend and former cell mate to my son Patrick, I know how traumatic it is to relocate. I was worried about leaving my home where Hamilton was vandalizing, and I was a “basket case” emotionally, and also concerned that I was leaving my mother in the clutches of Hamilton, but I had done all I could and it wasn’t enough, so finally decided I HAD to go into hiding.

    I am reminded again of the story about the Jewish girl from Germany, he father realized that the Nazis were going to kill the Jews before it was too late to escape. He begged his friends and relatives to go with him. They would have to leave everything behind and walk to Switzerland and the friends and relatives kept saying “but what about the furniture” In the end, he and his wife and daughter walked to Switzerland and eventually settled in Canada and all those he left behind worrying about their furniture ended up dead.

    “Stuff” CAN be replaced or done without, but we must preserve our life and sometimes that means fleeing.

    Thanks for sharing the link.

    • Joyce, that’s kind of the point of sharing the link in relation to the subject of this article. Stalking is serious business.

      I’ve actually heard people say, “But, it’s harmless….” And, I have to wonder how many times John Lennon said that before he was shot down.

      People who stalk are obsessed. That’s it. It’s not a “flattering” obsession, either. They’re not “in love” or anything else that could be remotely construed as “positive.” Stalking is deadly serious, and NOTHING is worth risking our lives over.

      You are so spot-on that stuff can be replaced.

  14. The book “the Gift of Fear” is an excellent book about stalkers and how we must listen to our gut about them and not give them feed back, but we also must take evasive action which may mean we leave home and find another place to live if that’s what it takes to keep ourselves safe. There ARE ways to get off the “grid” so to speak from forming a corporation or LLC in which to put your utilities and phone in that name, register your car and buy your car insurance so that those.addresses can not be used to track your whereabouts. In my case, my electric was hooked up in someone else’s name and my cell phone obviously didn’t give away my location…but now many of them have GPS locators on them so you also might want that in someone else’s name.

    My son Michael and I eventually decided to come home rather than continue to “run and hide” but if it ever became necessary again, I could leave on 10 minutes notice and not look back.

  15. My son has a 13 year old stalker. For over 2 years she will not leave him alone. She says she will kill herself if he is not in her life. She is only 13 years old. My son is 18 and now because he avoids her she has told cops he sent a nude to her. That was proven false. Then she said now he touched her. I have proof it did not happen. i am not in denial but instead my son is truly innocent. I don’t know what to do. She got a restraining order through her counselor but i think she never believed he would get any charges just she could come forward and save him. Instead i feel possible charges may happen. The day she was served with the restraining order saying my son could not come within 500 feet she had to be committed because she could not stand that. When she first started we thought it just a cute infatuation now it is a nightmare. My son is just starting to apply for jobs and his life was so awesome just 2 weeks ago. Now i am terrified. I need help and have no idea where to start. So far all that has happened is a restraint order but in it they say he touched her. He has witnesses proving he is innocent. I wish i trusted that just because he is innocent he will be cleared. But i don’t trust our system. What do i do?

    • I am so sorry I did not reply sooner, I have been involved with Patrick’s most recent parole review (he did not get it) I wish I could tell you what to do that would be 100% the correct thing. Stalkers are relentless. There is a book called the THE GIFT OF FEAR BY GAVIN DE BECKER that might give you some insight to how these people work.

      If it is possible I would move your son to another area away from her and do NOT let her or anyone she knows know where he is. She will NOT let up and I can only say it will probably get worse before it gets better.

      You might also consult an attorney as well. Do you live in a small or large town? Does she live near you and your son? There are ways that you can prevent FUTURE lies from being believed if your son is NEVER ALONE—make sure he has GPS on his phone and/or vehicle. Getting him out of town would be my best guess to protect him. That way if she accuses him of raping her you can prove he lived 6 hours away and could not have touched her. Once she gets caught lying for sure then the threat is gone. You can contact me at [email protected] if you would like.

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