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Surviving the legal system: Part II — 56 Comments

  1. I want to thank you all for your support and honesty. You have helped me see a lot this last couple of weeks probably because I have healed enough to move onto the next step. I do need to get strong because I know this will never be over for me until those grandsons grow up.I will show them my heart I will give them my heart and stand by them the best I can but I will always fear what is fact and what is fiction until I see the final results I will try to not knowingly let them us me. .My fear is that they can also keep using the children to set me up.I do not have the wisdom to know the difference My grandson last night tells me when he turns 14 he is going to take is mom to court so he can live with me then on the other hand he just came back from spending two weeks with his so called parents.I have to remember the power these two can have over these kids this is why I need counseling because the fear of the unknown scares the heck out of me.

    • DGma, I understand that a teenager can be conflicted…wanting to see the sibs that live with the mom and the jerk, you think all this is hard for YOU, that 13 year old kid is way more conflicted and confused than you.

      Did he go back to living with his paternal grandfather?

      Raising a teenager, even one that is from a previously steady home is a very difficult thing as when the hormones hit they sort of go bonkers, and setting limits and boundaries, SOLID boundaries, is difficult.

      In the meantime, think about having him come visit you over the summer rather than going to court just yet. SEE how YOU are able to take on the responsibility, because YOU MUST BE STRONG before taking on raising a teenager.

      So use that as a goal to help you heal. He is obviously safe now where he is and so though his loyalties are conflicted he is essentially out of the worst of the physical danger at least.

      I hope you can communicate with his current guardian and maybe get the boy some counseling…maybe through the school. Because I truly believe that young man needs some counseling before the hormones of puberty hit him full force and the opinions of his friends matter more than those of any parental or grandparental figure does.

      Don’t give up but proceed cautiously..

      • Yes he is safe right now but the other grandfather is very never committed. How i know I was married to him once. He also is as cheap as they come and I have been working hard on him not to give up. The mother placed the oldest grandson with him to avoid social services involvement because at that point the oldest grandson wanted to be apprehended. She still has legal right to this child so I there for would be charged if I brought him here for the summer with out her convent that for me would have to be in writing. There is no way they will give me consent because I am one of there targets. The child would have to go unfortunately on his own to child welfare and asked to be apprehended and placed here. I know what raising teenagers are like just finished raising three last year. I am only afraid of the mind games and do not want people to believe I am putting ideas in his head as they have used that for five years now and tried taking me to court over it. What they do not admit is that boy is smarter than they think. That boy got to his grandfathers because he asked question looked up his rights on the Internet his self only because he wanted out he could not take it anymore. You know as well they will never see that. Anyway one step at a time.

        • DGrandmother, you typed, “I am only afraid of the mind games and do not want people to believe I am putting ideas in his head as they have used that for five years now and tried taking me to court over it.”

          Mind games cannot be played without participants, whether they are unwittingly involved, or eye-ball-deep in the emotional cesspool. There must be participants in order for toxic people to play their games, and you are now aware of what these people are doing.

          I will offer you this from my personal experiences: once I engaged in strong counseling therapy with a trauma specialist, I began doing some very challenging work, and it was frightening to me, at points. I literally thought that I was going to die from the pain, and this belief was simply based upon fear. My entire lifetime has been a series of fear-based decisions and choices. I was more concerned about pleasing other people than I was about my own self. I often sacrificed to meet the needs (or, wants) of others, to my own detriment. I believed that, if these people saw that I was prepared to give up my own Self for their benefit, they would return that “love” in the same way, and this simply is not true. We cannot martyr ourselves and expect others to appreciate our sacrifices and act according to our personal expectations, especially, when we are dealing with people who do not have the ability (or, desire) to care.

          POSITIVE energies going out to you, DG. You are valuable in this vast Universe, and the people who are incapable or unwilling to appreciate this fact aren’t allowed in. 😉

  2. Okay I see the situation more clearly now….and yes, it may be best for him to go get himself where he can choose the person he lives with. But at least he is safe for now, and that is a first step in the right direction.

    In the meantime, I suggest that while he IS SAFE for the moment at least that you direct your energies toward healing YOU. So that when you can get the kid(s) you will have the strength to handle them.

    Well, at least you can talk to him on the phone and that’s a plus, so each step forward is one in the right direction. Hang in there DGma You can make it. (((hugs))) and God bless.

  3. Truthy, you are totally right that we can’t become martyrs….no matter how much we love someone.

    When my beloved step-dad was ill and dying with cancer, I was THERE for him, as I only worked weekends Ii could be there, but I also used every resource available to me to help me in his care. He lived 18 months when they had said 4 months after diagnosis, and I think it was because I was there to catch his many complications both from the medicines and from the disease process as well as other just “old age” complications. But he was an appreciative patient, and those 18 months were sad but also wonderful and the time I spent with him just talking during that time are now some of my fondest memories.But I did NOT martyr myself.

    My mother on the other hand was a DEMANDING patient, and even after she no longer NEEDED me there 24/7 she still demanded I jump to her every whim and to put her DESIRES (not her needs but her desires) ON THE FRONT BURNER and if I had to neglect my own welfare as a consequences…too bad. She was so angry that I set boundaries at this point that she devalued and discarded me for the psychopaths who were kissing her arse for the money she gave them. I refused to take any money from her so I was not “beholden” to her in that way and that ticked her off, but the Ps gladly took her money and then betrayed her. SHOCK! LOL

    When we are trying to help someone, especially in a situation where that person is being abused by a psychopath and taken advantage of and we love them, it gets dicey as you well know.

    Your son Bob still believes his evil brother “walks on water” and my mother believed that those people brown-nosing her were sincere and not just after her money. She also thought the money would make them grateful to her.

    I literally got down on my hands and knees and CRIED and BEGGED my mother to listen to me, but she refused, and D & D’d me in favor of the brown-nosers who were apparently jumping to her every whim., reasonable or not.

    The thing is that we MUST in order to be healthy put our own needs FIRST. We must be STRONG in order to even try to help someone else or we will fail in helping them, plus we will be basket cases ourselves.

    I know you empathize with DGma because you too lost a son to psychopathy, and he continues to emotionally harm your younger son and you are powerless to prove to Bob that his brother is EVIL. It hurts you to see Bob emoitionally USED by Mike and yet you can’t do anything to “save” him because he will not accept that Mike is EVIL. You can only do so much and you must keep YOURSELF HEALTHY, so that if and when Bob every “gets it” about his brother that you CAN help him to recover.

    Years ago there was a woman who went to my church and she was preg and had a couple of small kids, she separated from her abusive husband. My husband and I drove all the way to Illinois with a truck and trailer to retrieve her furniture and the church helped her get an apartment…well, guess what…before long she had the ex living back with her.

    That was my first experience with an abused woman who had left her abuser and I didn’t know then that many times the victim goes back to the abuser. I don’t know if both of them were just using us to move their stuff for free to the town, or if she really was an abused wife who took him back, but the thing is that we can’t really “help” people who won’t help themselves, we can’t save a drowning victim who keeps jumping back into the water over and over. There comes a time that we drown with them. So the bottom line to all this is that WE MUST TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES FIRST. We have to accept the REALITY of what IS and deal with THAT rather than grieve ourselves into a puddle WISHING for what is not going to happen.

    After my mom refused to listen to me, I left and went into hiding, worrying about leaving her at their mercy, thinking they might harm her…of course it hadn’t dawned on me that they didn’t want to harm her BEFORE I was dead due to the conditions of the family trust. But when Hamilton and my DIL found that I was gone, had secretly slipped away, then they went to plan B. Steal money from my mom and kill my son Andrew.

    So now I PUT MY OWN NEEDS FIRST and then if I have the strength I try to help others, but I never put others before my own self. I can’t. I have to remain strong for myself so I CAN help others without destroying myself.

  4. DGma- If the oldest is away, that is one step in the right direction. He can start to heal as well as you can too.

    Has anyone thought of bringing Child Protective Services in to talk to him in a neutral setting/atmosphere and get their help on getting the rest of the kids out of there? If he goes to them and explains the nature of the beast, they may be more inclined to listen, considering he has the support of both you and his grandfather. I haven’t dealt with them personally, but it may be worth a shot to ask.

    One concern here is that if he is out, the mind games, the verbal abuse, the bullying, intimidation, etc. may all be focused on another child. He’s no longer there to ‘take it’ so the next one in line gets his ‘share’ so to speak. The next one may not be as strong, may not see the truth behind the lies and may not know how to process or deal with everything. It happens a lot more than we would like to know and I wouldn’t be surprised if it does in this case too.

    The oldest one being away, yet still being in contact with his youngers- he sees this, hears about it, fears this and it weighs on him too. He may feel guilt or remorse for them going thru this because he got out. I agree that counseling is a good idea for him, be it thru the school or otherwise.

    I’m not trying to scare you, force you into action or push you, but instead I want to inform you of things you need to know about and always consider. They will not play nice and have proven that in the past. Sometimes you need to discard your traditional rules, logical thinking and play a different game. It’s not all black and white so keep in mind that these kind of people LOVE to play in the gray areas… How light or how dark that gray is depends on what they are out to get.

  5. Phoenix, DGma has already gone to the child protective services who sided with the mother and the mother got a restraining order on DGma…the CPS and the family courts are sometimes some of the worst abusers, accusing the nurturing party of being the evil one.

    Right now a friend of mine has had her son taken away by a crooked court, a “liar for hire” psychologist and placed with his abusive pedophile father and my friend is not even allowed supervised visits. It is truly scary how the family courts and people with money to hire “liars for hire” psychologists can manipulate the system….or how stupid child protective services can be.

    That’s the truly frustrating part with nurturing parents and grandparents, and especially if there has been no broken bones in the kid(s)

    While CPS is SUPPOSED to be objective and fair, and family courts are supposed to be fair, THEY ARE NO SUCH THINGS.

    There’s an article in the Daily Mail written by Donna A about this kind of thing. Apparently the documentary movie about it though is slanted by the “father’s rights” group which fight for the “rights” of abusive fathers against mothers who are trying to protect their children from abusive fathers.

    here is the link


    If that doesn’t “curl your hair” nothing will.

  6. That makes sense now. I didn’t know CPS had already been involved.

    Yes they are supposed to be fair AND unbiased, seeking the best interest for the sake of the children. Often the children are forsaken at their very hands.

  7. I had the same problems with ADULT protective services when I was doing home visits with very old and fragile, sometimes bedfast patients and if the worker didn’t SEE the person setting fire to the bed they did nothing…even when the “family” was very obviously neglecting the elderly and/or high on drugs or booze at the time the worker was there.

    Once I had a middle aged patient whose daughter age 16 was so combative that she had bitten her mother to the point she had removed chunks of meat, and since there was a sheriff’s order from a judge that the child couldn’t be removed from her mother’s (due to a custody dispute) that I advised the mother to leave the home until it could be sorted out next day and the adult and child protective services said if the mother “deserted” her child SHE would be prosecuted. I advised the mother to sleep in her car with the doors locked in DECEMBER rather than “desert” the daughter. The next day I contacted the judge who said “I can’t be talking about this to you” and I said “if this girl kills her mother then you will have to answer for that.” The girl was taken into custody and placed in a psych facility.

    YOu just never know what the heck these agencies are going to do or not do. And then when you have the PRIVATELY PAID ‘HIGH DOLLAR” consultants they will keep the fight going so they get more money.

    I remember a case with my x husband’s family, they owned the Froner (I think that’s how it is spelled) gold mines in Montana, and the lawyers got the heirs fighting and it ended up the LAWYERS ended up with the gold mines….and about $24 million worth of gold in the `1920s prices was lost to the families and the LAWYERS got it all. So that happens today many times in “family court” Breaks my heart.

  8. I hear you on that. A good friend of mine tried getting help for her elderly mother because the nurse was milkng the family trust for all its worth. She’s done it before, had a variety of aliases, the family Dr. knew something was up, attorneys and several others.

    Welfare checks by police, pastors and anyone else who may help were all fruitless efforts. She was helpless against the nurse even when there was so much on her side. Even the Atty Generals office was swamped and could for the most part- care less.

    As it turns out, as long as they say everything is ok, even if being intimidated, coerced or otherwise coached, authorities cannot do a thing. If she had said only once, No. Things are NOT ok… Things would have been handled far differently. Even when several different people on several different occasions had turned it in to the authorities.

  9. I tried so hard to “save” my mother from the influence of Hamilton, my DIL and Patrick, but I could do nothing to make her see the light…even after my DIL and Hamilton were arrested for trying to kill Clay (that charge was plead down) for about a year she believed the evidence she saw with her own eyes then slowly he put undue influence on her and she caved and started sending him money and lying to us ab out it. I just had to back out of the situation.

    My elderly neighbor’s daughter was gobsmacked when before he died he wanted his wife’s ashes, his ashes and HIS DEAD GIRL FRIEND’s (the meth ho) mixed together. LOL Well that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN for sure. LOL To the bitter end he still clung to the hope she “loved him” and not the money he provided her…which wasn’t much as he didn’t have much, but she took 100% of what he did have.

  10. The thing about involving CPS or even adult protective services is that going that route is opening a can of rotten worms, no matter what our personal perceptions might be. Even when we can present clear, hard, and actual evidence of someone’s harmful activities, these agencies are NOT “fair,” or even reasonable, most times.

    This is not to excuse the failures of the agencies, but to put their failures into perspective. Most averaged sized urban regions bring forth case loads of 600 new complaints, each month. The case-workers become hardened because of their own limitations, the parameters of the Law, the horrid things that they see, and their own sense of powerlessness. Some of these people are JUST as disordered as the individuals that they’re supposed to be “investigating!”

    So, surviving the legal system(s) AND the agencies that are associated with them requires separating our feelings from the facts and processes, which is NO EASY TASK. Sure, we are going to FEEL a flood of conflicting and negative emotions, and it’s very important to express those feelings in a safe and healthy way. Counseling therapy is one option of doing this. Getting those feelings out can allow for a calm dignity in approaching the horrors of any given situation.

    Nobody – not in print, or in spoken word – can adequately prepare a survivor of what they will be facing when they’re dealing with malicious, disordered people. It’s not fair, and it’s often not even “just.” And, I wish that I could change those facts, but I can’t. EUGH……

  11. Truthy, “keeping us in the spin cycle of emotion” is what Lawyers and the legal system do best it seems. The LEGAL ABUSE SYSTEM (which is the name of a book that is quite helpful) is unfortunately more the NORM than the exception.

    Agencies which are SUPPOSED to help us, such as the courts, the police, the CPS etc are often filled with people who lack empathy, or just “do their job” enough to get a pay check, or they have an agenda against some groups. some hate women, some hate men, some hate blacks, some hate whites etc. and these prejudices change the way they “do their job” so that it ISN’T FAIR AND JUST.

    It is difficult to fight a battle in court and NOT get emotional, or in my case, prepare a parole protest. I allowed it to THROW ME INTO THE ABYSS of the spin cycle this last time, and almost destroyed my own sanity. I had to quit preparing before I totally destroyed myself and there were a few other letters Ii wanted but I could NOT go on, so I stopped and just prayed to God I had “enough” and my prayers were answered.

    So I KNOW first hand the legal system is not “fair’ and we have actually little “control” over outcomes…we just have to do the best we can and then leave the rest to God.

  12. There is abuse experienced within the legal systems – there IS, indeed!

    With regard to the emotions and proceedings, absolutely those feelings are “normal” and to be expected! I tried to practice expressing those emotions and feelings prior to the court appearances so that I might be able to keep my reactions or responses within a “normal” range. When I attended the first hearing for the restraining order that the exspath filed against me, I was a WRECK – I was in a state of anxiety that I cannot describe, and I had to sit and listen to several other cases before mine even came up on the docket. This also caused tremendous anxiety because these were women (and a couple of men) who had been brutally battered and presented photographs of their injuries, and clothing that was covered in blood. I wasn’t prepared for this, at all.

    As I continued in the counseling sessions, I really had to practice purging the fear, the anxiety, and the outrage to maintain somewhat of an even keel. It wouldn’t have helped me to be in tears while I was being questioned.

    Indeed, no system is fair or even “just,” most of the time and there really isn’t any way to prepare for the dreadful abuse of the legal systems.

    The agencies that have been formed to “help’ the public are a total failure. Social workers bring their own issues into their jobs just as anyone else would, and there’s no way to prevent it other than to reconstruct each agency from the ground, up. THEN, there should be stiff penalties for people who abuse those agencies to cause harm to others – I cannot even count how many times people have called CPS on a neighbor or family member out of pure malice. This diminishes the validity of EVERY actual case of child abuse that is reported.

    The systems and agencies are totally broken, and I can’t even come up with one reasonable idea on how to fix any of them! LOL!!!

  13. Well, you know most of the crimes patrick has committed BEHIND BARS, smuggling in things etc. were with the help of CORRUPT GUARDS. People who are supposed to be enforcing the rules are breaking them as well. A guard smuggled him in a cell phone etc. always of course for money….it is the foxes guarding the hen house. And what about the crooked cops? And crooked politicians? How about Water Gate? Bridge Gate? and all the other GATES that crooked politicians have done….in some cases causing the deaths of others?

    YOu know I am getting pretty picky on who I associate with or do business with. There ARE good people but sometimes I feel like Diogenies looking for an honest man.

  14. Joyce, 100% spot-on. People in positions of power can abuse their positions with relative ease. And, crimes behind bars are more common than they are on the streets!

    I think it’s a very good approach to be cautious and “picky.” I’m learning how to do that, myself. 😉

  15. Truthy, here’s the link to the article you sent me this morning http://wnep.com/2014/01/17/corrections-officer-facing-sex-charges/ about the prison guard who molested and even raped multiple female prisoners.

    This is a very common thing if you look at the news, but makes you wonder about the oones that are NOT FOUND OUT.

    It talked about the inmates not reporting it because of FEAR of retalilation, and it talked about the other guards WHO KNEW ABOUT IT also not reporting it for fear of pay back for ratting out another guard.

    You know that sounds a lot like Penn State were “everyone” knew what was going on but for one reason or another they DID NOTHING TO STOP IT.

    Someone once said “that all it takes for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.”

    In the past people have both praised me, and condemned me, for turning in my son, but the most COMMON reaction was “how could you ever do that? I could never turn my own son in” Well, you know if it was your kid who did a robbery and I knew I would turn him in, so if it is my kid that did a robbery why should I NOT turn him in?

    I guess it is against “human nature” to not “protect” your kid from the consequences of bad behavior, but you know if that’s “human nature” then I don’t want it. I want to do what is RIGHT when it comes to reporting a crime, even if that is turning in my kid, my friend, a spouse if I had one, because NOT reporting a crime is a crime in itself.

    Sometimes even “harmless” crimes cause horrible consequences.

    Recently in Tennessee a young man on a bowl winning Ark. State University team had gone home for a visit to his mom and step father’s house. Apparently the step father was a big time marijuana dealer and there was a “large stash” of both pot and money in the house…the house was invaded by two masked armed robbers who shot the mother, but she survived, but both men, the football player and his step father were killed.

    Personally I think pot should be legalized because making it ILLegal hasn’t stopped people smoking it, but has simply put more profit into crime without reducing the amount of pot on the street….and illegal weed and the money causes things like this to happen.

    My guess is that both the young man and maybe his mother KNEW about the step dad selling drugs, or who knows they may also have been involved in it. I find it very difficult to think that an operation that large was unknown by anyone in the house except the step father…if these people had persuaded dad to STOP his illegal activities, or if he wouldn’t stop, have turned him in. THEY WOULD HAVE SAVED THE LIVES OF BOTH MEN.

    They couldn’t have known that of course, but the thing is that any time we engage in illegal activity, even “harmless” activity, we are putting ourselves at risk, and others at risk, and if we KNOW about a crime *(whether we believe it is “harmful” or not) there may be some UNINTENDED violence come about.

    I say POX on all that knew about this guard;’s crimes and didn’t report it, I think just as Penn State is having those who knew PROSECUTED, that should be the case here as well, at the very least for the GUARDS who knew.

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