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What is “Duping Delight?” — 27 Comments

  1. That last sentence, they lack the impulse control to realize…

    Maybe not so much the lack of impulse control but maybe also a decent serving of they just don’t care if they get caught? Add to that a good scoop of their ego? A generous helping of their arrogance? Mix it up well before serving a grand portion of—>>> they lack any sense of feeling or care how or IF it affects others and what the final results will be. Sure they get some pleasure out of it, but they don’t care what happens to themselves or others as a result. All that matters to them is that they ‘won’ by pulling off yet another scam of some kind.

  2. They really think they’re always going to get away with it. The high from duping delight is the whole basis for the spath’s behavior. It’s what they live for because at the other end of the spectrum is the boredom they’re always trying to escape.

  3. The pictures are perfect! That goat pic pretty much says it all. And I love that you use animals as examples, it provides such a simple way to absorb the idea, that might otherwise seem incomprehensible if we only describe it in human terms.

    An offender I knew once said to me ‘all the women I’ve known have told me how foolish I made them feel…so it’s not just you’, and then he smirked. I remember my heart sinking at that moment, because I knew that he was tipping his hand, and was getting ready for the grand finale of his horrible performance.

    Boy did I want to slap that smirk right off of his face. He loved making fools of people, or duping them, he totally delighted in it.

    I so agree, Skylar, that this is what they live for. It is the antidote for their general sense of boredom…which comes from having little or no true connection (in the deeper sense) to humanity.

    Duping Delight. Big red flag for someone who is totally disinterested in change.

  4. Guys, after Ken Hamilton was arrested for trying to kill my son Andrew, when he came to court he had a smirk on his face like TJ Lane…and when he went to jail before going to prison he was bragging to some of the other inmates about how he had “put one over on” our family and all the chaos he had caused.

    One of the other inmates was a man in for bank robbery, and the man had been a former medical patient of mine. Hamilton was not a local, and our local bank robber resented Ken’s gloating and “duping delight” at what he had done to our family, so knowing he was going to prison for a LONG TIME, so there would be little in the way of consequences, he beat the be-jezus out of Hamilton.

    Yea, they like to gloat about what big shots or how tough they are, even when they are in prison. Believe it or not, my son Patrick thinks he is a BIG SUCCESS though his crimes have landed him in prison since age 17 except for a few months out between crimes—he just turned 43 and he’s only been on the street for a total of 12 months since he was 17 but he seems himself as a SUCCESS????? Well, he successfully robbed people, but got caught, he successfully killed Jessica, but he got caught…but he just sees the “successes” and doesn’t count the “getting caught” because it was always someone else’s fault.

    The letters I have that Patrick wrote to Hamilton were filled with bragging and duping delight, and how when he got caught with a LOT of pornography he told the Warden to “shove it up his mexican arse” All his con jobs, and smuggling, and breaking the prison rules are just a game to him….the delight he gets from getting away with something for a while is more pleasurable to him than the solitary confinement is a punishment.

    They say that compulsive gamblers get their “adrenaline fix” whether they win or lose, because either way the “high” they get is a reward, even the losing gives them the adrenaline fix, so I think it is the same with psychopaths….”winning” is okay, but even “losing” is never their fault so it is okay too…the risk taking behavior win or lose gives them the rush.

  5. Joyce,

    It is amazing the circular nature of the psychopaths ‘defense’ mechanisms. How they, through denial and projection that is beyond armor-tight, are able to see themselves in such grand terms, instead of as puppets of their own chemistry and choices.

    I like the analogy to gamblers, and I too think it is as reasonable an explanation as any as to why, even if these types lose big time, they continue to perpetrate all types of crime and abuse. It’s the process of doing it that gives them the biochemical high that they crave. Otherwise life is one giant bore for them. But it will never make sense to me that their drug of choice is all manner of inhumane activity. I accept it. I have seen it happen too many times to deny it.

    I cannot imagine making those kinds of choices, and continuing on, for one’s entire life, in creating pain for other human beings. All to get my body chemistry worked-up. And since I have had the opportunity to watch them from a distance I wonder how they can’t NOT see how robotic, predictable, repetitive, and confining their actions are. Over and over, the same thing day in and day out.

    It’s as if their minds have a huge hole in them where the lightbulb is supposed to occasionally go off.

    • I saw a 20/20 or dateline the other night about Col. Russel Williams in Canada. He was a real big shot, commander of the biggest airforce bace in Canada…for years he would break into homes, wear the women’s underwear, take pictures of himself in them, and then take the underwear…then he started raping these women, then he killed two. fortunately he messed up and the tire tracts to his vehicle were identified as the killers.

      The show had part of the police interview on tape and the cop was awesome. He let Williams see bit by bit that he was totally caught…remorse? Of course none. The ultimate “shame” of having himself and his perversions and crimes revealed…but he had gotten away with so many for so long he thought he would never get caught.

      He will spend probably his last breath in prison though…but if and when he is released, he will be back doing perverted things again’ They do NOT change.

      • Joyce,

        I watched that same program (about Col. Russell Williams). One of his former subordinates at work said that he had been a good boss, very professional, that she didn’t recall ever seeing him lose his cool – his crimes came as a total shock to many people. Obviously, he had a rage inside of him, ready to be released (in the form of raping and assaulting women), I suppose, acting out his fantasies. Scary.

  6. The “drug” they get hooked on is adrenaline which is released in response to stress and danger. HOW they get their fix is the problem. Many “extreme sportsmen” get their “fix” of adrenaline by climbing mountains, riding motorcross, riding bulls etc. and those things are ACCEPTABLE ways to “get your fix” but many times the person high in psychopathic traits will get their fix in risk taking of another sort…robbery, rape, becoming a con-man, or 1,000 other ways that they practice getting their fix.

    It isn’t just the kid that robs the liquor store, it is also the man who plots the embezzlement of his firm’s money, just the planning of the robbery or con gives them a high. It excites them like when you are planning on a vacation or a birthday party. The anticipation of the event gives pleasure.

    Patrick and some other offenders I have known seem to want an AUDIENCE to appreciate their “craft” and applaud them. They tell and retell (and embellish) the stories of their crimes. One of Patrick’s favorite tales is how some drug dealer murdered his wife and he killed the drug dealer and that’s why he’s in prison. LOL Yea, he doesn’t bother telling them he shot some young girl in the head at close range because she ratted him out for stealing her grandfather’s credit card.

    Hamilton bragged in jail here in our local county about how he worked us over….but he failed to appreciate that 1) rednecks and blacks in Arkansas are not fond of Texas Hispanics and 2) that one who mess over local residents and then brag about it are definitely not liked. For his bragging, he got both eyes blacked and his nose broken in our local jail by another inmate a white bank robber druggie and a black druggie teamed up on him.

    Some serial killers and serial rapists keep “trophies” of their victims, a lock of hair, or a piece of jewelry, something to remind them of their “score”

    My opinion is that serial rapists and sexual sadists are all full on psychopaths, and I think most if not all pedophiles are as well. They enjoy the suffering of their victims and “care less” what their crimes do to their victims. Jerry Sandusky is one of those who thought he was so powerful that no one would stop him. And in fact he was until FINALLY he was cornered and convicted.

    I think OJ Simpson is another one. He got away with murdering his wife and her friend, and then thought he could get away with an armed invasion of the residence of someone he thought had stolen from him. OJ felt so powerful he could do anything and get away with it.

    From the time that they found her dog, an akita, who is a Japanese war dog, very aggressive and very protective, covered in her blood, I knew that OJ did it. That dog was THERE at the murder. Anyone besides OJ who tried to harm her would have been eaten alive, but because the dog knew OJ he would ahve been confused about what to do. Just like my trained guard dog would eat anyone who tried to kill me (especially with a knife) but if my son attacked me with a knife, she would be confused and not likely to attack him because he is part of her “pack” and she is subservient to him just as she is to me.

    The duping delight may be openly evident in court like TJ Layne, or it may simply be partly hidden behind a smirk but even going to prison for life doesn’t diminish it. Look at Charlie Manson he glories in his “fame” even from behind bars.

  7. I think the smirk is their way of pretending to hide even more than what we think they know or have already done, as if it is a part of their mask. They pulled off a grand scheme, but we only caught them for their transgressions on a minor level… If we only knew half of what they had really done??? It’s part of their stupid games and goes right along with them getting away with things several times over before finally getting caught the first time.

  8. Phoenix, Dr. Anna Salter, who is THE expert on pedophiles says that on AVERAGE they have offended 150-300 times before they are caught for the FIRST time…so they are sure not “first offenders” and sure not going to change because they get 30 days jail time.

    I agree that the smirk is the way they show their CONTEMPT for us because they have gotten away with MOST of their offenses and “little do we know” about them.

    • Thank you for this. It will surely come in handy, not just for me, but likely for others too. Sad fact as it is when you think about it.

  9. Phoenix, I will never forget the SMIRK on Hamilton’s face as he sat in the court room after he and my daughter were arrested. He was SOOOO proud of himself even though he was in an orange jump suit…he had sure pulled one over on our family. I daughter in law, she wasn’t smirking, she was FURIOUS and she was staring daggers at me. She was chained between two women who appreared to be meth addicts and she was looking at me, then saying something to the meth addict, then the meth addict would look at me. I am sure my DIL was telling her side of the story about what a horrible person I was to her fellow inmate. No smirk there. She was furious she had been caught, not only having an affair with Hamilton, but taking money from my mother, and failing to do away with my son, her husband.

    Hamilton had been inside prison for the vast majority of his adult life so prison held no fear for him, it was “home” a well known and comfortable situation. My DIL: on the other hand had never been arrested before or been in jail so it was a whole new venue for her.

    She wrote a letter to her daughter and mailed it to my mom’s house, and we were allowed to read it, in which she blamed the whole situation on me being such a “piece of work.” She wasn’t exactly smirking, but she was blame placing and denying responsibility for her actions.

    • They do seem to have either a smirk from duping delight or a look of rage, don’t they? How dare we catch them at something? As if! Humph. Pffffft.

      I think I’ve also actually seen a strange twisted combination of the two as well. Kind of as if they are ‘saying’ “Ok so you caught me and while I’m mad about that, there’s so much more you have no idea about…” It’s ok though. It all seems to come out in the wash or in their case- court. How badly they don’t want that to happen? Your mileage by spath, may vary.

  10. Joyce,

    This is another good article, having wanted to have a better understanding of what is meant by duping delight. The spath seems to get duping delight when he bounces checks, committing bank fraud (having learned recently about a bounced check that he used to pay for my daughter’s after-school care program). You can tell him what the consequences of his actions might be and it’s not registering in his P-brain. As long as he has checks, it’s just a matter of time before he ends up arrested again. His stupidity aggravates the heck out of me, feeling very badly for my children (I’ve told them that I can’t fully protect them from their dad due to his willingness to commit crimes). With him, I just wait for the chit to happen and hopefully, I’m strong enough to cope.

    • Bluejay, the “duping delight” is a universal behavior of the disordered and, quite often, simply toxic individuals.

      When children are involved, it is a VERY challenging situation to manage because there is so much personal emotion involved. We “know” what the spath is, and we “know” that these people are mistreating innocent children, and we are often confounded by the broken Family Courts and agencies that are sworn to “protect” the innocents. The emotions are typically in overdrive, and this translates to our children in the form of anxiety.

      Separating the emotions from all situations (at least, at the start) is a life-saving technique that takes some time to learn, and it is absolutely priceless as a form of emotional/physical/financial/sexual/spiritual protection. Separating the emotions from our interactions does NOT “make us like them.” We maintain our emotions in a safe posture and we FEEL, whereas the spaths and generally TOXIC individuals do NOT “feel.” They do not, they cannot, and they never will “feel” any emotions with the exception of envy, rage, and contempt. Even during sex, they do not “feel” any emotion.

      You are most certainly strong enough, Bluejay. You’re still here, you’re surviving, and you’re making it through every day as a stronger, wiser, more confident, and more courageous human being. There IS a point of balance and centered spirit, and we all get there at our own pace. I’m still working like a fiend to find this balanced center for myself, but it takes time to get there and it also takes patience. So, you’re doing FINE.

      • Truthy, your points above are very well made….and we don’t just “get there” and then everything is “lovely.” We may be well on the healing road and let something trigger us and we fall flat on our faces, or sink into the abyss. I did that very thing this past year from January to June when I was preparing my protest of Patrick’s parole. I let EMOTIONS OVER TAKE ME. I let FEAR creep in, I went bonkers until in June I finally said ENOUGH!!!!! and started practicing the techniques I had learned but let slip.

        I think we must continually work on staying level and balanced. Life is always going to throw us curve balls and some offenders are in our lives FOREVER…lilke my son is not someone I can “forget about” because the malice he bears for me is never going to end as long as we both live. An ex husband or ex friend you can get out of your life with NC but if you share children with them, or they keep doing things in your life to scare or hurt you then it is more difficult to keep that balance.

        No matter how “strong” we get we have to keep in mind that if the offender is still “in” our lives, even on the margin then they will raise concerns. So the “trick” there if there is one is to BE AWARE that things may derail us from time to time, and then when we feel it happening to STOP it in its tracks before it sends us down into the pits like I let happen to me.

  11. Blue, I know that in the past you have been embarrassed by his actions because of the “shame” it brings on your family for him to act in the criminal manner that he has done, but I know that feeling of not wanting others to know that our relationship (in your case ex husband, in mine my son) was not “successful” and that our former beloved has behaved in a criminal manner. But Blue as I’ve told you before we must let go of the shame, it is NOT OURS, it is theirs, but if they do not feel shame it still doesn’t mean that we must feel their shame, it is not our doing.

    We are not responsible for what they do….and if he bounces checks it will bite HIM in the butt in the end….and if he bounces checks for part of his support for the kids, then take it back to the court, they will take a dim view of this.

    They do get delight out of causing us problems even if by doing so they dont’ benefit themselves in any way. That doesn’t make sense to us, but that’s their attitude. They WIN even if they lose, because they made us miserable. LOL It is definitely reverse psychology.

  12. Bluejay, I wish I could say you were alone on this one, but I can’t. I can’t even begin to tell you how many bad checks mine wrote. Well, maybe I can give you an idea.

    When I flipped my chit on him and finally got access to the current account… Over $2200 just in overdraft fees alone, in less than a year. Not a typo and no I’m not kidding. Notice I said I flipped my chit? One of them being a $10 check to the local law enforcement to register the home alarm system, that he has yet to pay for… That one ended up in the ballpark of $200 when you figure in the o/d fee from the bank and the $135 fee payable by cashiers check only to the county attorneys office and their “Bad Check Writing” department…

    We changed banks, cell phone companies, health insurance, car insurance and all but the utility companies with the bounce of a check (or several!) and often left owing somewhere in the range of $500-$1000, that he always promised to pay back. The utility companies were often sending us delinquent notices too, which I rarely seen because he was home, he knew we were behind, knew it was coming and hid it all from me. Who knows how many of those were o/d checks with fees too? To his credit, the power and water never got shut off, but several times it was mighty dang close. I can’t even begin to imagine, nor do I really want to or care, what kind of convoluted crock and bull story he told his enablers to get money to cover them before it happened.

    When I closed the joint account, the ‘hate storm’ and smear campaign began with him telling his parents we were getting divorced. Well it took a little while and some other things too, for that to happen, but yeah. He’s blaming me for everything, lie and deny, project to protect and all of the other childish, stupid and petty games they play because we all know…. They can do no wrong. They will never own up to anything. They take no responsibility. They accept no accountability and they will continue to behave this way to their grave.

    As Joyce said, their actions are not ours to own. Come judgement day and they meet their maker- we are NOT going to be the one standing there taking any licks for what they have done. That has been one thing that was a saving grace for me thru everything. I hope it can finally be for you too! (((((Hugs)))))

  13. I agree Phoenix, they will some day meet a judge that cannot be bribed and get what they richly deserve. We all “sin” and do things we shouldn’t but the lack of remorse, the lack of conscience is what sets some of the offenders apart from others who do have a conscience and remorse.

    We don’t have to answer for their behavior, only our own. I know that people “gossip” and point fingers, but those people have no compassion and enjoy playing the game as Dr. Berne would say of “Oh, ain’t it awful?” or “did you hear about it?” and those people I don’t worry about any more…”if they’re talking about me they are leaving some other poor soul alone.” As long as I strive to do the right thing then I only have to answer to my conscience and my God.

  14. I agree Joyce. I figure if their life is so boring, so mundane and so trivial, that they have to worry about what I’m doing? It’s not my problem. They are the only ones who can fix it. If they want to…

  15. The Phoenix,

    Thank you for your comment. I can SO relate, having had similar experiences years ago (when we had a joint bank account), before he walked out, I believe to “teach me a lesson.” Interestingly, the spath wanted to come back to me and the kids, but that wasn’t going to happen. By then, I’d experienced enough craziness that I was DONE. Currently, the spath has a sales-type job, so he is earning income, his pay fluctuating during different times of the year. It’s up to me to be the sole provider for my kids (I have been for years). Nevertheless, he continues to be foolish, wearing on me. It’s true what Joyce said, “As long as I strive to do the right thing, then I only have to answer to my conscience and my God.” In my opinion, these people are insane, even though they can act and seem “normal” at times.

  16. Re reading that article above…I seen all kinds of “family dysfunction” involved here. The man is 40+ and still living in mom’s home. She knows he is a drunk, and she knows WHY he didn’t go to work, and she starts nagging him.

    Right now, she is playing the “victim” role and he is the “persecutor” and I would be willing to bet that she ends up either dropping charges or bailing him out.

    I think this is a dance of dysfunction that has gone on wayyyyyy too long.

    Not that he had a right to do what he did, and I don’t think she realized he would go into such a rage.

    There are times when the family roles are locked into the dysfunctional triad of “victim, persecutor, and rescuer” When we “rescue” someone in the sense that we are doing for them what they should do for themselves but are unwilling to do so, then they begin to resent us for having power over them…and “rescuers” of course want gratitude and control, and so the game of dysfunctional musical chairs continues. He just upped the ante in this dance of dysfunction and obviously has some “duping delight” about it.

    In retrospect I realized that I also played this game of trying to rescue people from themselves, and they did not want to be rescued, only for me to suffer the consequences of their bad behavior. Not gonna happen any more.

    • Joyce, the thing about altering the dynamics of the dysfunction is coming to the point of acceptance that things are, indeed, dysfunctional and that we do not (by ANY stretch of the imagination) have any control OVER the dysfunction other than to get the heck out.

      For many, there is a pathological level of “comfort” and familiarity with the dysfunction, and I know this from personal experience. That “victim status” is familiar and the behaviors that come along with it. Changing that status from “victim” to Survivor requires acknowledgment that I tolerated inappropriate behaviors and that I also participated in the dysfunction – that was the hardest part for me because there was a VERY clear understanding within my head that I had been thoroughly abused by my first spouse – but, I wasn’t squeaky-clean, myself, and that was a grievous point to come to.

      That victim/persecutor/rescuer triangle is a recognizable pattern of behaviors within ALL dysfunctional relationships, bar none. And, we can actually observe these behaviors outside of family dynamics, as well – work environments, platonic interactions, and everything in between. It’s NO easy task to sort these things out, but it all begins with being sick and tired of FEELING sick and tired.

  17. You are soooo right, Truthy!

    It’s odd too, that when someone comes to a counselor because they are involved in a dysfunctional relationship and the counselor gently tries to educate them about the TRIAD, and their part in the dark dance of dysfunction, they can’t accept it very easily. “I’m not the one doing all this bad stuff, HE IS!!!” That sort of an attitude. But as long as we PARTICIPATE in the dance in the role of victim, we ARE part of the problem.

    Now I am NOT, repeat, NOT “victim blaming” in the least, but as liong as we sit in the “victim” chair we are participating in the dysfunction. But we also participate in the other two seats, rescuer and persecutor, as well. That’s the odd part…people involved in this “dance” seem to have a “favorite” chair, yet we all switch seats. I imagine it as lile a game of “musical chairs” Eric Berne in “Games People Play” explains it very well.

    Of course many offenders have that “duping delight” and enjoy the memories of their bad behavior sort of like a couple of old drunks sitting around talking about “the night we got soooo drunk, we……” Sometimes the primary victim may sit around nursing their grievences and remembering how badly they have been treated.

    I remember when I finally started to get out of the “dance” how I continually focused on how badly I had been treated by my son and most of the rest of my family. Poooor me, a pity party….but in order to get on the healing road I had to acknowledge MY part in the dance. After the “fur started to fly” I STAYED around to be attacked, and kept coming back for more. Even when I saw the DUPING DELIGHT and knew that Patrick, especially, enjoyed what he had done, the laws and rules he had broken, and when the duping delight over Jessica’s murder showed through, it HIT ME like a ton of bricks and I realized he has NO remorse and never will have….

    It is difficult to disconnect from the dark triad but we can disconnect, and disconnect from others who play that “game” of musical chairs of dysfunction.

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